Ukuphoqeleka ukukhula kuvelaphi? Ingxoxo noProf. Andreas Novy | I-S4F AT

Njengengxenye yochungechunge lwethu lombiko Okhethekile we-APCC "Izakhiwo zempilo evumelana nesimo sezulu", uMartin Auer ovela Ososayensi beFuture Austria nge UProfesa Andreas Novy kukhulunywa. Isifundo sakhe esomnotho wezenhlalakahle futhi uphethe i-Institute for Multi-Level Governance and Development e-Vienna University of Economics and Business. Sikhulume ngesihloko esithi “Ukukhula kanye nomnotho wezepolitiki wokukhula okufanele”.

Inhlolokhono ingazwakala kuyo I-Alpine GLOW.

Kusobala ukuthi isintu sisonke sifinyelela umkhawulo weplanethi. Kusukela ngawo-1960s, besilokhu sisebenzisa izinsiza eziningi ngonyaka kunokuba iplanethi ingakwazi ukukhiqiza kabusha. Kulo nyaka, iWorld Overshoot Day isekupheleni kukaJulayi. Amazwe afana ne-Austria adla isabelo sawo esifanelekile ngaphambili kakhulu, kulo nyaka bekungu-Ephreli 6. Kusukela lapho besiphila ngezindleko zekusasa. Futhi akukhona nje ukuthi inani labantu emhlabeni liyanda. Wonke umuntu oyedwa udla kakhulu. Ngokwesilinganiso, imali engenayo yomuntu ngamunye iphindeke kane kusukela ngeminyaka yawo-1950. Lokhu kuchuma kwabiwa ngokulinganayo, kokubili phakathi kwamazwe nangaphakathi kwamazwe, kodwa sekukonke siseqophelweni lapho wonke umama wekhaya onengqondo kanye nawo wonke umnumzane wekhaya onengqondo kufanele athi: Sekwanele, ngeke sisakwazi ukwenza okunye.

Kodwa wonke uNobhala woMgcinimafa kanye nesikhulu esiphezulu ezinkampanini siyahwaqa uma ukukhula komnotho kwehla. Kuyini, yini eqhuba lokhu kukhula ngokungakhathali? Kungani singeke nje sithi: Kwanele wonke umuntu, kufanele nje kusatshalaliswe ngokuhlukile, bese kwanele?

Buyini ubunxiwankulu?

UMartin Auer: I-APCC Special Report ifundeka kanje: “Ukwephulwa kwemingcele yamaplanethi okungabhekwa njengamanje (isb. endabeni yokushintsha kwesimo sezulu) kuhlobene eduze nendlela yokukhiqiza nokuphila konxiwankulu. Ngakho umbuzo wami wokuqala uthi: Iyini le ndlela yokukhiqiza yonxiwankulu, iphawuleka kanjani futhi yehluke kanjani ezindleleni zangaphambili zokukhiqiza?

U-Andreas Novy: Kuze kube ngekhulu le-17 nele-18, umnotho emhlabeni wonke wawuzinzile futhi uhleleke ngemijikelezo. Kwaba nokuncane noma akukho nhlobo ukukhula kokukhiqizwa kwezimpahla kanye nenani labantu. Futhi lokho kuyashintsha ngomnotho wonxiwankulu. Lokhu kwenza umnotho wonxiwankulu uhluke kangangokuthi izinguquko kwezobuchwepheshe - injini yesitimu, umanyolo - kodwa nezinguquko zenhlangano, ngaphezu kwakho konke ukuhlukaniswa kwabasebenzi kanye nomphumela kanye nokwanda komnotho wezimakethe - kubangele ukuthuthukiswa kokukhiqiza kanye nesivinini sokukhula esiyingqayizivele kwaqhubeka amakhulu amabili eminyaka futhi kuye kwasho ukuthi akugcini nje ngokuphindaphindeka kweholo likazwelonke, ukuthi abantu bacebe kakhulu namuhla, kodwa futhi kunabantu abaningi abengeziwe abaphila isikhathi eside, abaphila kahle kakhulu, abafundile kakhulu. Lokho kusho ukuthi umphakathi wanamuhla, hhayi eGlobal North kuphela, awukwazi ukuqhathaniswa nemiphakathi eminyakeni engamakhulu amathathu edlule. Lokho kuncike kulo mnotho wonxiwankulu, endleleni abantu abakhiqiza ngayo nabaphila ngayo. Futhi lokho kunezici eziningi ezinhle ngathi sonke.

Ukusheshisa okukhulu

Futhi ngesikhathi esifanayo, isayensi yemvelo kanye nesayensi yomhlaba isungule ukuthi kusukela ngekhulu lamashumi amabili futhi ikakhulukazi kusukela phakathi nekhulu lamashumi amabili, kube khona into efana nokusheshisa okukhulu, okungukuthi ukukhula okukhulu okubonakalayo kwezinkomba zenhlalo-mnotho nezesayensi - kusuka ku-GDP kuya ekukhiqizweni kwe-CO20. Futhi ukuthi lokhu kukhula kwe-biophysical, ukusetshenziswa ngokweqile kwezinsiza, ukufinyelela ngokweqile kwemvelo, kuqala ukubukela phansi isisekelo sempilo yomuntu futhi ikakhulukazi okungezona ezomuntu. Futhi izici ezilimazayo zokukhula seziqala ukubonakala ngamandla, kangangokuthi ucwaningo lwesimo sezulu manje seluyaqiniseka ukuthi lolu hlobo lomnotho lungenye yezimbangela eziyinhloko zenhlekelele yesimo sezulu, nokuthi inhlekelele yesimo sezulu ingagwenywa kuphela. uma siphumelela ukuguqula lo mnotho ngekhulunyaka lama-2.

Ku-capitalism, ukuntengantenga kuwukwehla

UMartin Auer: Ubani oshayela lokhu kuphoqeleka kokukhula? Ingabe kungenxa yokuthi abathengi bafuna okwengeziwe, noma inqubomgomo yezomnotho, noma ivela ezinkampanini ngazinye, noma ihlobene nokuncintisana phakathi kwezinkampani?

U-Andreas Novy: Isakhiwo esivelile lapha esisungule ubudlelwano bokuncintisana ngokwakhiwa kwezimakethe. Ubudlelwano bokuncintisana buyisisusa sokuthuthukisa, sokuzuza isabelo semakethe, ukuqhubekisela phambili inqubekelaphambili yezobuchwepheshe ukuze uphile uma uqhathaniswa nomncintiswano. Futhi ku-capitalism kuyasebenza umgomo oyisiqondiso: ukuma ukwehla. Kungakho abadlali bezocabanga ngokukhula, ngoba kuphela uma bethuthuka, bekhula, bezuza isabelo semakethe lapho bengaziqinisa. Ngakho-ke, ukunqoba indlela yokukhiqiza yonxiwankulu kudinga ukuthi siguqule izakhiwo. Kuhlale kunengqondo ukunxusa abantu ngabanye. Izinkampani ezisohlwini lwe-stock exchange ngeke zivinjwe. Ngamanye amazwi, kungadingeka ukugqobhoza le logic. Okudingekayo yindlela yokwenza ibhizinisi lapho kungagxilwa enzuzweni. Lokho kufanele kuqhubeke, kodwa izinqumo ezibalulekile neziyisisekelo kufanele zisekelwe kulokho okudingekayo ukuze umuntu abe nempilo enhle.

Ezinye izindlela zonxiwankulu?

UMartin Auer: Kodwa lokho kuzodinga imithetho eqinile kakhulu - kusukela emazingeni kahulumeni noma aphezulu. Kodwa ingabe kuzodinga futhi ukuthi kusuke ezinkampanini ezizimele baye ezinkampanini zomasipala eziningi, noma izinkampani zikahulumeni? Uma sithi inkampani ezimele ayikwazi ukukhokhela ukuthi ingakhuli, iyiphi enye indlela?

U-Andreas Novy: Ingxoxo mayelana ne-capitalism kanye nezinye izinto ezingasetshenziswa esikhundleni sobunxiwankulu impela indala kakhulu, futhi enye indlela enamandla neyaziwa kakhulu kwakuyi-socialism, futhi enye indlela eyaziwa kakhulu yomnotho wemakethe ukuhlela okuphakathi.

UMartin Auer: Kodwa kwakunganelisi kanjalo.

U-Andreas Novy: Impela. Okungagculisi neze ngalezi zinkulumo-mpikiswano ukuthi bahlale becabanga ngokwezinto ezimbili. Kubi ngempela ukucabanga ukuthi okuphambene nento ongayithandi kuyinto efanele ukuyenza. Izindlela engizibheka njengezithembisayo kakhulu zihlale ziyizindlela ezixube umnotho. Ngikholelwa ukuthi umnotho we-post-capitalist uxubile, ukwamukela ukuthi imikhakha ehlukene yomnotho isebenza ngezindlela ezahlukene. Kunezindawo ezithile ezingahlelwa kahle njengomnotho wemakethe, isibonelo izindawo zokudlela. Ngakho-ke kunengqondo ukuthi abantu bangakhetha ukuthi bayayidla i-pizza noma i-schnitzel, nokuthi abapheki abangcono banqoba abapheki ababi kakhulu. Futhi-ke kunezinye izindawo, njengezemfundo nempilo, lapho ukuhlinzekwa komkhakha womphakathi cishe kungcono kakhulu. Futhi-ke kusenezindawo lapho ungabona khona ukuthi awukwazi ukwanelisa izidingo ngaphandle kokudliwa nangaphandle kwemali. Ukuthi unedolobha elihamba amabanga amafushane nezindawo zokuhlangana lapho ungayidingi khona imoto, nomnotho uya ngokuya untengantenga ngoba abantu abasadingi mali yokuhamba.

Ukwesaba ukuncipha

UMartin Auer: Kodwa lelo manje sekuyigama elivusa ukwesaba: umnotho uya ukuncipha. Wonke umuntu uba nama-goosebumps: Ukuntuleka kwemisebenzi, ukulahlekelwa umholo... Ukubona kanjani lokho?

U-Andreas Novy: Kuyaqondakala lokho. Hhayi nje ngoba ukukhula komnotho kukhiqize ukuchuma komphakathi lapha e-Austria. Futhi ngoba ukukhula komnotho kuxhasa ngezimali i-welfare capitalism, izwe lezenhlalakahle elithuthukile. Lokho kusho ukuthi kunezinkinga zangempela zokuguqukela emnothweni lapho ukukhula kungaseyona into eqhubayo. Lokhu akusho nje ukuthi imikhiqizo embalwa engadingekile ikhiqizwa kancane, kodwa futhi idinga izinguquko ohlelweni lwezenhlalakahle. Kuyaqondakala ukuthi abantu bakhathazekile ngalokhu. Kodwa uma ubheka izinombolo, kunamaphuzu ambalwa asizayo: enye iwukuthi uhlobo lokuhlinzekwa kwezinsizakalo zenhlalakahle oluhambisana kakhulu nesimo sezulu futhi oluhambisana kakhulu nokuthuthukiswa okusimeme ukukhawulela ukusetshenziswa ngokweqile. Ngakho-ke ukungalingani kuwumshayeli obaluleke kakhulu obukela phansi ukubumbana komphakathi, kodwa futhi weqa imingcele yeplanethi.

UMartin Auer: Ungakwenza kanjani lokho?

U-Andreas Novy: Ungakwenza lokho ngokwenza lokho okusebenze ngokushesha nangempumelelo, ngokukhomba ama-oligarchs aseRussia, abese evumela wonke umuntu ngoba ezwelana nombuso waseRussia, ukuthi ulandela lesi simiso, ukuthi kunabantu abadla ngokweqile, ukuthi imingcele ibekwe lapha. okufanele kubekwe umphakathi, lapho le mikhawulo ikhona, noma ngabe ama-akhawunti asebhange angekho emthethweni, noma ama-yachts, bese ungabheka ukuthi ulawula ngezintela, noma ukuthi nguwe olawula ukuvinjelwa, ukuthi indiza yangasese ayisekho. kuvunyelwe, konke lokho kufanele kuxoxiswane ngakho, kodwa kuyisiqalo esibalulekile sokuncipha. Futhi lokho kuwukuncipha ekhoneni okungathinti abantu abajwayelekile.

UMartin Auer: Kodwa lokhu manje sekuqala ngokusetshenziswa, hhayi ngendlela yokukhiqiza.

U-Andreas Novy: Uma uqala ngendlela yokukhiqiza, ifana kakhulu, imayelana nokugudluzwa kwezabelo kanye nokubuyiselwa eholweni. Futhi, lesi isilinganiso sokwabiwa kabusha, ukuthi kunoguquko olusuka emalini engenayo luye endaweni yokuzilibazisa kanye nengcebo yesikhathi. Lokhu kusho ukuthi unesikhathi esithe xaxa sokwenza izinto ezithile wena noma ulondoloze izinga lakho lokuphila, nokuthi kungenxa yokugudluka ekukhiqizeni okuhloswe ekusetshenzisweni, okube sekudliwa abantu abazimele, kuya ekutshalweni kwezimali kwingqalasizinda, okwanelisa unomphela. izidingo ngaphandle kokuthi abantu bathenge izinto ngokubuyisela.

Ubungane besimo sezulu kufanele kwenze ukuphila kushibhe

UMartin Auer: Singaba yini isibonelo salokho?

U-Andreas Novy: izindawo zomhlangano. Izindawo zokuzijabulisa zomphakathi ezishintsha umqondo weholide, zishintsha lowo mqondo wokuphunyuka kwempelasonto edolobheni. Lesi yisibonelo sokuqala sakudala nesisobala kakhulu, esinganwetshwa ngokushesha esikweni nakwezinye izindawo. Futhi iyindawo ebalulekile ngoba izinhlobo ezimbili ezibaluleke kakhulu zokusetshenziswa ezihambisana nesimo sezulu ukuhamba kanye nezindlu. Ukudala ithuba lokuthi abantu babe nendawo encane yokuhlala yangasese ngoba indawo yokuhlala isezingeni eliphezulu kungumnikelo omkhulu ekuvikeleni isimo sezulu. Kusho ukwehla ngoba imboni yezokwakha ayisakhi izindlu ezintsha kodwa isilungisa izindlu. Lokhu kusho ukwehla ngoba zimbalwa kakhulu izimoto ezikhiqizwayo ngoba ikakhulukazi ezokwabelana ngezimoto kanti amabhasi adingekayo mancane kunezimoto ezizimele. Kodwa ohlangothini lwekhwalithi yempilo, lokho kusho ukuthi ungaphila ngemali engenayo ephansi kakhulu.

UMartin Auer: Ngakho ngezinto ezimbalwa empeleni.

U-Andreas Novy: Ngezinto ezimbalwa, kodwa futhi ongaphila ngemali encane engenayo ngoba izindleko zakho zokuhlala ziphansi endaweni yekhwalithi. Kufanele usebenzise imali encane ukuze ufike endaweni ethile ngemoto, kufanele usebenzise imali encane efulethini lakho, futhi ngalokho usuvele unengxenye enkulu yezindleko zekhaya.

UMartin Auer: Kodwa lokho futhi kudinga ukuvikeleka komphakathi. Uma manje sithi abantu abasayidingi imoto ngoba idolobha lakhiwe ngokufanele, futhi sinabantu abangu-75.000 e-Austria embonini yezimoto, sibhekana kanjani nalokho manje?

U-Andreas Novy: Cishe kulula embonini yezokwakha, lapho unoguquko usuka ekwakhiweni okusha kuya ekulungiseni kuzo zonke izinhlobo: ukuthuthukela ezindlini ezingenamandla amancane, ukufakwa kwe-insulation, ama-photovoltais nakho konke lokho.Imboni yezimoto, umkhakha wokuhamba ngokuqinisekile uyindawo ezomane nje shwabana. Kodwa kusobala ukuthi zikhona ezinye izindawo lapho abasebenzi bedingeka khona ngokushesha. Lokho kukhona futhi engxoxweni yomphakathi, futhi akuwona nje umkhakha wokunakekela...

UMartin Auer: Kodwa awukwazi ukumane uqeqeshe kabusha isisebenzi sezimoto ukuthi sibe umhlengikazi. Lokhu kungenzeka esikhathini eside sokuthuthuka, kodwa hhayi ngaso leso sikhathi.

U-Andreas Novy: Impela. Ngakho-ke kuyodingeka futhi ngokwezinga elikhulu ukuphatha le mikhakha yezomnotho ngendlela ehlukile. Kuzodingeka ukuthi kuhambisane nokuguqulwa kwesistimu yokuhamba, kuyodingeka ukuthi umbuso ubambe iqhaza elibalulekile, futhi empeleni - kunezibonelo eziningi - i-naïve yokukholelwa ukuthi abasebenzi bezimoto bazoba abanakekeli. Kodwa, uma sikubeka ngenye indlela, kukhona amathilamu nezitimela okufanele zakhiwe, futhi kukhona nezinye izingcweti zezobuchwepheshe lapho kunengqondo kakhulu ukuthi omakhenikha bezimoto bahambe, futhi lokho kuyodingeka kusekelwe. Uma ufuna ukugcina ukubumbana komphakathi endleleni eya emphakathini wangemva konxiwankulu, awukwazi ukugwema ukwesekwa kombuso.

Ubani okufanele anqume ukuthi yini eyanele?

UMartin Auer: Kodwa ubani ozonquma manje ukuthi yini eyanele? Uma sikhuluma ngokwanela: yini eyanele, lokhu kunganqunywa kanjani futhi lokhu kungaqiniswa kanjani?

U-Andreas Novy: Lokho kuxazululiwe ngempela. Siphila kuntando yeningi ekhululekile lapho lokhu kwenzeka ngaso sonke isikhathi. Esinye sezehlakalo eziyinhlekelele kakhulu zesimo sezulu imithetho yethrafikhi yomgwaqo - ngikholwa ukuthi kusukela ngo-1960 e-Austria - eyethula umthetho wokwenqabela ongakholakali wokuthi emgwaqweni abanye abasebenzisi bomgwaqo abangashayeli bavunyelwe ukuhamba kancane. ukunyakaza. Lokhu kusekelwe emithethweni, kubalulwe yisishayamthetho. Sinemfundo ephoqelekile kanye nazo zonke izinhlobo zemithetho neziqondiso, awuvunyelwe ukweba impahla nokunye, kuntando yeningi ekhululekile elawulwa yisishayamthetho, uhulumeni, nokho amandla alawulwa. Futhi ngalokho, okwanele kanye nomkhawulo kubekwa njalo. Futhi uma manje sifuna ukuthi kube nezindawo eziningi zokuhlangana, lokho kusho ukuthi kuzosho imingcele ethile yokushayela kanye nokwanele ngokwanele. Futhi uma kufanele siguqule izindawo, lokho cishe kuzohlanganisa nokuhlakazwa kwemigwaqo nezikhumulo zezindiza, bese uhulumeni ethatha isinqumo, njengoba manje esephushele umzila wesithathu wezindiza. Kucace bha, futhi ngingabona ukuthi iyona ndlela kuphela, ukuthi lokhu kungenziwa kuphela ngentando yeningi, futhi ngakho-ke kuyadingeka futhi ukuthi abantu bakufune futhi bakusekele, okuyinselelo enkulu impela.

UMartin Auer: Kodwa lokho kusadinga ulwazi oluningi kanye nogqozi olukhulu.

U-Andreas Novy: Impela. Futhi-ke sikude kakhulu kulokho, kodwa futhi kusho ukuthi sisendleleni lapho ingekho enye indlela. Ngicabanga ukuthi kuwumbono ophelele wabaphikisi besimo sezulu nababambezeli besimo sezulu ukukhuluma ngobushiqela be-eco. Ngibona ingozi enkulu kakhulu yokuthi kunamasu omashiqela okucindezela umqondo wokukhula ngaphandle kokuvinjelwa iminyaka embalwa eyengeziwe kanye nokuvimbela izinyathelo zesimo sezulu. Ngikholwa ukuthi inselelo enkulu yilena: singakwazi yini ukwenza isenzo esisebenzayo sezulu emphakathini wentando yeningi. Kunombuzo wokuthi lokhu kuzophumelela yini, kodwa ngokubona kwami ​​akukho okunye.

UMartin Auer: Ngiyabonga, ngicabanga ukuthi kube isiphetho esihle leso.

U-Andreas Novy: Yebo ngenjabulo.

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