Kuthetsa utsamunda wa tsogolo - Kucheza ndi Prof. Christoph Görg | S4F PA

pulofesa waku yunivesite Dr. Christoph Görg amagwira ntchito ku Institute for Social Ecology pa yunivesite ya Natural Resources and Life Sciences ku Vienna. Iye ndi m'modzi mwa olemba komanso olemba otsogolera a APCC Special Report Zomangamanga za moyo wokonda nyengo, ndipo ndiye mlembi wa bukhuli: kugwirizana kwa chikhalidwe ndi chilengedwe. Martin Auer wochokera ku °CELSIUS amalankhula naye.

Chimodzi mwazofunikira za mutu wakuti "Social and Political Ecology", chomwe Pulofesa Görg ndi mlembi wamkulu, akunena kuti "zofuna zatsopano zatsopano (monga kukula kobiriwira, e-mobility, chuma chozungulira, kugwiritsa ntchito mwamphamvu biomass)" zokwanira kukhala moyo wochezeka nyengo zitheke. “Ukapitalizimu wapadziko lonse wazikidwa pa kagayidwe kachakudya m’mafakitale, amene amadalira zinthu zakale zokwiririka pansi ndipo motero chuma chochepa chotero sichimaimira njira yokhazikika yopangira ndi kukhala ndi moyo. Kudziletsa kwa anthu pakugwiritsa ntchito zinthu ndikofunikira. ”

Kuyankhulana kungamveke pa Alpine GLOW.

Kodi "social ecology" ndi chiyani?

Martin Auer: Tikufuna kukambirana za lero chikhalidwe ndi ndale zachilengedwe kambirana. "Ecology" ndi mawu otero omwe amagwiritsidwa ntchito nthawi zambiri kotero kuti sudziwa tanthauzo lake. Pali zotsukira zachilengedwe, magetsi obiriwira, midzi…

Christoph Goerg: Ecology kwenikweni ndi sayansi yachilengedwe, yochokera ku biology, yomwe imanena za kukhalirana kwa zamoyo. Mwachitsanzo, ndi unyolo wa chakudya, ndani ali ndi zilombo, ndani ali ndi chakudya. Amagwiritsa ntchito njira zasayansi kusanthula zochitika ndi kulumikizana m'chilengedwe.

Chinachake chapadera chinachitika mu chikhalidwe cha anthu. Zinthu ziwiri zikuphatikizidwa pano zomwe zili m'magulu awiri asayansi osiyana kotheratu, omwe ndi chikhalidwe, chikhalidwe cha anthu, ndi chilengedwe monga sayansi yachilengedwe. Social ecology ndi sayansi yamitundu yosiyanasiyana. Sikuti katswiri wa zachikhalidwe cha anthu amagwira ntchito limodzi ndi akatswiri a zachilengedwe panthawi ina, koma kuyesa kumayesedwa kuti athetse mavuto m'njira yophatikizana, nkhani zomwe zimafunadi kuyanjana, kumvetsetsa kofanana kwa maphunziro kwa wina ndi mzake.

Ndine katswiri wa zachikhalidwe cha anthu mwa maphunziro, ndagwiranso ntchito kwambiri ndi sayansi ya ndale, koma tsopano pano pa sukulu ndimagwira ntchito kwambiri ndi asayansi anzanga. Izi zikutanthauza kuti timaphunzitsa limodzi, timaphunzitsa ophunzira athu m'njira zosiyanasiyana. Chabwino, si mmodzi yemwe akuchita sayansi ya chilengedwe ndiyeno ayenera kuphunzira pang'ono za chikhalidwe cha anthu kwa semester, koma timachita pamodzi, pophunzitsa limodzi, ndi wasayansi wachilengedwe ndi wasayansi wa chikhalidwe cha anthu.

Chilengedwe ndi anthu amalumikizana

Martin Auer: Ndipo simumawona chilengedwe ndi anthu ngati magawo awiri osiyana, koma ngati madera omwe amalumikizana nthawi zonse.

Christoph Goerg: Ndendende. Timalimbana ndi kuyanjana, ndi kuyanjana pakati pa madera awiriwa. Mfundo yofunikira ndikuti simungathe kumvetsetsa imodzi popanda imzake. Sitingathe kumvetsetsa chilengedwe popanda anthu, chifukwa lero chilengedwe chimakhudzidwa kwathunthu ndi anthu. Iye sanazimiririke, koma iye wasandulika, wasinthidwa. Zamoyo zathu zonse ndi chikhalidwe cha chikhalidwe chomwe chasinthidwa pogwiritsa ntchito. Tasintha nyengo yapadziko lonse lapansi ndipo potero takhudza chitukuko cha dziko lapansi. Palibenso chilengedwe chilichonse chosakhudzidwa. Ndipo palibe gulu lopanda chilengedwe. Izi nthawi zambiri amaiwala mu chikhalidwe sayansi. Timadalira kutenga zinthu kuchokera ku chilengedwe - mphamvu, chakudya, chitetezo ku nyengo yoipa, kuzizira ndi kutentha ndi zina zotero, kotero timadalira kugwirizana ndi chilengedwe m'njira zambiri.

Social metabolism

Martin Auer: Nawa mawu ofunika: "social metabolism".

Christoph Goerg: Ndendende zomwe ndatchula ndi "social metabolism".

Martin Auer: Momwemonso ndi nyama kapena chomera: zomwe zimalowa, zomwe zimadyedwa, zimasinthidwa bwanji kukhala mphamvu ndi minofu ndi zomwe zimatulukanso kumapeto - ndipo izi tsopano zasamutsidwa kwa anthu.

Christoph Goerg: Inde, timayang'ananso kuchuluka kwake, zomwe zimadyedwa komanso momwe zimatuluka pamapeto pake, mwachitsanzo, zomwe zatsala. Timawunika momwe nsalu zimapangidwira, koma kusiyana kwake ndikuti anthu asintha maziko ake a nsalu m'mbiri yonse. Pakali pano tili mu kagayidwe kachakudya kamene kamakhala kochokera kumafuta. Mafuta oyambira pansi amakhala ndi mphamvu zomwe zinthu zina zilibe, mwachitsanzo biomass ilibe entropy yomweyo. Tagwiritsa ntchito mwayi wokhudza kagayidwe kachakudya m'mafakitale -- pogwiritsa ntchito malasha, mafuta, gasi ndi zina zotero - zomwe anthu ena analibe nazo kale, ndipo tapeza chuma chodabwitsa. Ndikofunika kuwona zimenezo. Tapanga chuma chambiri chodabwitsa. Ngati ife kubwerera m'badwo m'badwo, ndi zophweka kwambiri kumvetsa. Koma tapanga vuto lalikulu ndi izo - ndendende ndi mwayi womwe tapeza pogwiritsa ntchito chilengedwe - chomwe ndi vuto la nyengo komanso zovuta zamitundumitundu ndi zovuta zina. Ndipo muyenera kuziwona muzochitika, muzochita. Chifukwa chake ichi ndi chotulukapo cha kugwiritsa ntchito chuma uku, ndipo tiyenera kudalira kudalira kwa anthu pazinthu izi. Ndilo vuto lalikulu lomwe tikukumana nalo masiku ano: Tingasinthire bwanji kagayidwe kachakudya m'mafakitale. Ndilo mfungulo kwa ife.

Zotsatsa zam'mbuyomu sizokwanira

Martin Auer: Tsopano mawu oyambilira akuti - motsimikiza - kuti zopatsa zam'mbuyomu monga kukula kobiriwira, e-mobility, chuma chozungulira komanso kugwiritsa ntchito biomass popanga mphamvu sizokwanira kupanga nyumba zokomera nyengo. Kodi mungalungamitse bwanji zimenezo?

Christoph Goerg: Pogwiritsa ntchito mphamvu zowonongeka, tapanga mwayi wachitukuko kwa anthu omwe sitingathe kupitirizabe pamlingo womwewo. Osati ngakhale pogwiritsa ntchito biomass ndi matekinoloje ena. Komabe, mpaka pano palibe umboni wosonyeza kuti tingathe kuchita zimenezi. Tiyenera kutambasula denga chifukwa tikuzindikira kuti ngati tipitiriza kugwiritsa ntchito mafuta oyaka, tidzayambitsa vuto la nyengo. Ndipo ngati sitikufuna kuigwiritsa ntchito, ife monga magulu tiyenera kuganizira kuchuluka kwa kulemera kumene tingakhale nako mtsogolo? Zomwe tikuchita pakali pano: Tikupanga tsogolo. Lero timagwiritsa ntchito kutukuka kwakukulu kothekera powononga mibadwo yamtsogolo. Ndikuchitcha kuti colonization. Mwa kuyankhula kwina, mwayi wawo umachepetsedwa kwambiri chifukwa lero tikukhala mopitirira malire athu. Ndipo ife tiyenera kupita kumeneko. Ili ndiye vuto lalikulu lomwe limayankhidwa ndi chiphunzitso cha Anthropocene. Izo sizimatchulidwa mwanjira imeneyo. Anthropocene imati inde, tili ndi zaka za munthu lero, zaka za geological zomwe zapangidwa ndi anthu. Inde, zimenezo zikutanthauza kuti m’zaka mazana zikubwerazi, zaka zikwizikwi, tidzavutika ndi zothodwetsa zamuyaya zimene tikupanga lerolino. Kotero osati ife, koma mibadwo yamtsogolo. Timaletsa zosankha zawo kwambiri. Ndipo ndichifukwa chake tiyenera kubweza utsamunda wathu wanthawi, kulamulira kwathu mtsogolo. Ili ndiye vuto lalikulu lavuto lanyengo. Izi tsopano zikupitirira Lipoti Lathu Lapadera - Ndikufuna kutsindika izi - awa ndi maganizo anga monga pulofesa wa chikhalidwe cha anthu. Simudzapeza kuti mu lipotilo, si lingaliro logwirizana, ndilo lingaliro lomwe ndimapeza kuchokera ku lipoti monga wasayansi.

Martin Auer: Ndi lipotili, tilibe bukhu la maphikidwe la momwe tiyenera kupangira mapangidwe, ndi chidule cha malingaliro osiyanasiyana.

Sitingakhale ndi moyo wokhazikika ngati munthu payekha

Christoph Goerg: Iyi ndi mfundo yofunika kwambiri: Tidaganiza zosiya malingaliro osiyanasiyana momwe alili. Tili ndi malingaliro anayi: momwe msika ukuyendera, momwe zinthu zatsopano zimagwirira ntchito, momwe anthu amagwirira ntchito komanso momwe anthu amawonera. Pokambirana za kusintha kwa nyengo, kawonedwe ka msika kokha kamene kamatengedwa nthawi zambiri, ndiko kuti, tingasinthire bwanji zosankha za ogula pogwiritsa ntchito zizindikiro zamtengo wapatali. Ndipo ndipamene lipoti lathu likunena momveka bwino kuti: Ndi kawonedwe kameneka, anthu pawokhapawo ali othedwa nzeru. Sitingakhalenso ndi moyo wokhazikika monga munthu payekha, kapena ndi khama lalikulu, ndi kudzipereka kwakukulu. Ndipo cholinga chathu ndichakuti tiyenera kupeza zisankho za ogula kuchokera pamalingaliro awa. Tiyenera kuyang'ana pa zomangamanga. Ichi ndichifukwa chake tidawonjezeranso malingaliro ena, monga malingaliro aukadaulo. Pali zambiri. Ndizokhudza chitukuko cha matekinoloje atsopano, koma amayeneranso kuthandizidwa ndi zikhalidwe za chimango, zomwe sizichitika zokha, monga nthawi zina zimachitikira. Zosintha ziyeneranso kupangidwa. Koma muyeneranso kuyang'ana kupyola matekinoloje amtundu uliwonse, muyenera kuphatikiza zomwe zimagwiritsidwa ntchito paukadaulo. Nthawi zambiri amanenedwa kuti ngati simukufuna kukamba zaukadaulo, musatseke pakamwa panu. Ayi, tiyenera kulankhula za teknoloji, komanso za kugwiritsa ntchito zipangizo zamakono ndi zotsatira zake. Ngati tikhulupirira kuti galimoto yamagetsi idzathetsa vutoli mu gawo la zoyendera, ndiye kuti tili panjira yolakwika. Vuto la magalimoto ndilokulirapo, pali kufalikira kwa tawuni, pali kupanga konse kwa magalimoto amagetsi ndi zida zina komanso kugwiritsa ntchito magetsi. Inu muyenera kuwona izo mu nkhani. Ndipo izi zimanyalanyazidwa m'magawo apadera azinthu zatsopano. Ichi ndichifukwa chake tidaganiza zokwaniritsa malingaliro amsika ndi malingaliro aukadaulo ndi malingaliro operekera, mwachitsanzo kubweretsa zoyendera zapagulu, kapena kubweretsa nyumba zomwe zimathandizadi kukhala ndi moyo wokonda nyengo. Ngati izi siziperekedwa, ndiye kuti sitingakhalenso okonda nyengo. Ndipo potsiriza kaonedwe ka chikhalidwe cha anthu, uku ndiko kuyanjana kwakukulu pakati pa anthu ndi chilengedwe.

Kodi capitalism ikhoza kukhala yokhazikika?

Martin Auer: Tsopano, komabe, mutu uno ukunena - kachiwiri momveka bwino - kuti capitalism yapadziko lonse lapansi siyimayimira njira yokhazikika yopangira komanso kukhala ndi moyo chifukwa imadalira zinthu zakale, mwachitsanzo, zotsalira. Kodi capitalism yozikidwa pa mphamvu zongowonjezedwanso komanso chuma chozungulira sichingachitike konse? Kodi tikutanthauza chiyani ndi capitalism, imadziwika ndi chiyani? Kupanga zinthu, chuma cha msika, mpikisano, kudzikundikira ndalama, mphamvu zogwirira ntchito ngati chinthu?

Christoph Goerg: Koposa zonse, kupanga ndalama zambiri pogwiritsa ntchito likulu. Izi zikutanthauza kupanga phindu. Ndipo bweretsani phindu, ligwiritseni ntchito, ndi kukula kwake.

Martin Auer: Chifukwa chake simumatulutsa makamaka kuti mukwaniritse zosowa zina, koma kuti mugulitse ndikutembenuza phindu kukhala likulu.

Christoph Goerg: Ndendende. Cholinga chachikulu ndikugulitsa kuti mupange phindu ndikubwezeretsanso, ndikupanga ndalama zambiri. Ndicho cholinga, osati phindu. Ndipo limenelo lingakhale funso lalikulu: Tiyenera kufika pamalingaliro okwanira, ndipo kukwanira kumatanthauza kwenikweni: Kodi timafunikira chiyani kwenikweni? Ndipo kodi tingakwanitsebe chiyani m’tsogolo chifukwa cha vuto la nyengo komanso mibadwo yamtsogolo? Limenelo ndilo funso lalikulu. Ndipo ngati izo zingatheke pansi pa capitalism ndi funso lachiwiri. Inu muyenera kuziwona izo. Koma mulimonsemo, tiyenera kutero - tiyenera kuchoka ku ulamuliro uwu wopeza phindu chifukwa cha phindu. Ndipo ndicho chifukwa chake tiyenera kuchoka pamalingaliro akukula. Pali ogwira nawo ntchito omwe amakhulupirira kuti vuto la nyengoli lingathenso kuthetsedwa ndi kukula. Anzanga afufuza izi ndipo ayang'ana mapepala onse omwe alipo pamutuwu ndipo ayang'ana kuti awone ngati pali umboni uliwonse wosonyeza kuti tingathe kuchepetsa kulemera kwathu kuchokera kuzinthu zomwe zimagwiritsidwa ntchito ndi nyengo. Ndipo palibe umboni wa sayansi wa izo. Ndipo kwa decoupling kwenikweni. Panali magawo, koma anali magawo a kugwa kwachuma, mwachitsanzo, mavuto azachuma. Ndipo panali kusiyana pakati pawo, kotero tinali ndi chuma chochuluka kuposa zotsatira zoyipa. Koma tiyenera kuyandikira chikhulupiriro cha kukula ndi kukakamiza kukula. Tiyenera kupita ku chuma chomwe sichimakhulupiriranso kukula kosatha.

Kodi Kukula Ndi Nkhani ya Chikhulupiriro?

Martin Auer: Koma kodi kukula tsopano ndi funso chabe la malingaliro, chikhulupiriro, kapena zangomangidwa mu dongosolo lathu lazachuma?

Christoph Goerg: Ndi zonse. Zimamangidwa mu dongosolo lathu lachuma. Komabe, zikhoza kusinthidwa. Dongosolo lazachuma ndi losinthika. Tithanso kuthana ndi zovuta zamapangidwe. Ndipo ndipamene chikhulupiriro chimayamba kugwira ntchito. Pakali pano, ukayang’ana m’mbali za ndale, sumapeza chipani ngakhale chimodzi chomwe chikuchita zisankho zomwe sizikukhuza chuma. Aliyense amakhulupirira kuti kukula kwachuma ndi njira yothetsera mavuto athu onse, makamaka mavuto athu azachuma ndi zachuma. Ndipo kuti tichite izi, tiyenera kutsegula danga kuti tithe kuthana ndi mavuto popanda malingaliro akukula. Anzathu amachitcha kuti degrowth. Sitingakhulupirirenso, monga momwe zinalili m’zaka za m’ma 70 ndi 80, kuti mavuto athu onse adzathetsedwa ndi kukula kwachuma. Tiyenera kupeza njira zina, njira yothetsera mapangidwe omwe amayesa kusintha mapangidwe.

Kudziletsa pagulu

Martin Auer: "Societal self-limited" ndiye mawu ofunikira apa. Koma kodi zimenezi zingatheke bwanji? Mwa kulamula kuchokera kumwamba kapena mwa demokalase?

Christoph Goerg: Zitha kuchitika mwademokalase. Iyenera kutsatiridwa ndi mabungwe a demokalase, ndiyeno idzathandizidwa ndi boma. Koma sichiyenera kubwera monga lamulo lochokera kumwamba. Ndani ayenera kukhala ndi ufulu wochita izi, ndani ayenera kunena ndendende zomwe zingatheke komanso zomwe sizingatheke? Izi zitha kuchitika kokha munjira yovota mwademokalase, ndipo izi zimafunikira kafukufuku wina wasayansi. Ngakhale sayansi siyenera kulamula, kapena kulamula. Ichi ndichifukwa chake tawonjezera lipoti lathu lapadera ndi ndondomeko ya okhudzidwa yomwe ikukhudza okhudzidwa ochokera m'madera osiyanasiyana a anthu: Kuchokera pamenepa, kodi anthu omwe amathandizira kukhala ndi moyo wabwino komanso okonda nyengo angawoneke bwanji? Ndipo sitinangofunsa asayansi, koma oimira magulu osiyanasiyana a chidwi. Imeneyi ndi ntchito yademokalase. Ikhoza kuthandizidwa ndi sayansi, koma iyenera kufotokozedwa m'malo a anthu.

Martin Auer: Ngati mungachepetse izi tsopano, mutha kunena kuti: Izi ndi zofunika kwambiri, izi ndi zinthu zomwe zimakhala zabwino mukakhala nazo, ndipo ndi zinthu zapamwamba zomwe sitingakwanitse. Kodi mungatsutse zimenezo?

Christoph Goerg: Sitingatsutse izi kwathunthu. Koma ndithudi tikhoza kusonkhanitsa umboni. Mwachitsanzo, nkhani za kusagwirizana pazachuma zili ndi zotsatirapo zazikulu pa kutulutsa mpweya wotenthetsa dziko. Ndicho chinthu chimodzi chachikulu chomwe chimapangitsa kuti mukhale ndi ndalama zambiri. Ndalama zambiri zimagwirizanitsidwa ndi kudya kwapamwamba. Ndipo pali madera omwe mungathe kuwasiya popanda kudzimana. Kodi mumayenera kuwuluka kupita ku Paris kukagula zinthu kumapeto kwa sabata? Kodi mumayenera kuwuluka makilomita ochuluka chonchi pachaka? Mwachitsanzo, ndimakhala ku Bonn ndipo ndimagwira ntchito ku Vienna. Ndinasiya kuulukabe. Ndawona kuti mukufulumira ku Vienna kapena ku Bonn, koma mumapanikizika kwambiri. Ngati ndipita pa sitima, ndi zabwino kwa ine. Sindimapita popanda ngati sindiwuluka kumeneko. Ndinasintha bajeti yanga ya nthawi. Ndimagwira ntchito m'sitima ndikufika momasuka ku Vienna kapena kunyumba, ndilibe nkhawa yoyendetsa ndege, sindikhala nthawi yayitali pachipata ndi zina zotero. Izi kwenikweni ndi phindu la moyo wabwino.

Martin Auer: Ndiko kuti, munthu akhoza kuzindikira zosowa zomwe zingatheke m'njira zosiyanasiyana, kudzera mu katundu kapena ntchito zosiyanasiyana.

Christoph Goerg: Ndendende. Ndipo tidayesetsa kuthana ndi izi pochita nawo mbali. Tinadzizindikiritsa tokha ku mitundu yonga iyi, mitundu yakumidzi kapena anthu okhala mumzinda, ndipo tinafunsa kuti: Kodi miyoyo yawo ingasinthe bwanji, kodi uwo ungakhale bwanji moyo wabwino, koma wopanda kuipitsa nyengo. Ndipo muyenera kugwiritsa ntchito malingaliro pang'ono. Izi zimadaliranso kwambiri momwe ntchito zikuyendera, komanso momwe bajeti ya nthawi yopuma ikuyendera. Komanso ntchito yosamalira yomwe muli nayo ndi ana ndi zina zotero, mwachitsanzo, momwe amapangidwira, ndizovuta zotani zomwe muli nazo, kaya mukuyenera kupita mtsogolo ndi mtsogolo, muli ndi njira zambiri zomasuka komanso zosinthika za nyengo. -ochezeka. Ngati muli ndi zovuta zantchito, ndiye kuti mumagwiritsa ntchito CO2 yochulukirapo, kuziyika mophweka. Kotero timachitadi ndi bajeti ya nthawi. Ndizosangalatsa kwambiri kuwona kuti mawonekedwe anthawi yogwiritsira ntchito amatenga gawo lalikulu pakutulutsa kwathu kwa CO2.

Martin Auer: Ndiye munganene kuti kuchepetsa nthawi yogwira ntchito kungathandize anthu kukhala osavuta?

Christoph Goerg: Mwanjira ina iliyonse! Kusinthasintha kowonjezereka kungapangitse kuti zikhale zosavuta kwa iwo. Simuyenera kutengera ana anu kusukulu pagalimoto, muthanso kukwera njinga yanu pafupi ndi iyo chifukwa muli ndi nthawi yochulukirapo. Zachidziwikire, ngati mugwiritsa ntchito kusinthasintha kuti mupite kutchuthi kwambiri, ndiye kuti zimabwereranso. Koma tili otsimikiza - ndipo tikuwonanso umboni wa izi - kuti bajeti ya CO2 ikhoza kuchepetsedwa ndi kusinthasintha.

ndi zochuluka bwanji

Martin Auer: Kodi mungapangire bwanji kukwanira, kapena kufunikira kokwanira, kukhala kovomerezeka kotero kuti anthu sakuopa?

Christoph Goerg: Simukufuna kuwachotsera kalikonse. Muyenera kukhala ndi moyo wabwino. Ichi ndichifukwa chake ndikutsindika kuti kutukuka, moyo wabwino, uyenera kukhala chinthu chofunikira. Koma ndifunika chiyani kuti ndikhale ndi moyo wabwino? Kodi ndikufunika e-mobile m'galaja kuwonjezera pa injini zanga ziwiri za petulo? Kodi zimenezi zimandithandiza? Kodi ndimapinduladi ndi izi, kapena ndili ndi chidole? Kapena ndi kutchuka kwa ine? Kumwa kwambiri ndi kutchuka. Ndikufuna kusonyeza kuti ndingakwanitse ulendo wamlungu wopita ku London. Kutchuka kumeneku sikwapafupi kusiya, koma pangakhale nkhani yapoyera ponena za izo: Kodi ndi zinthu ziti zomwe ndikufuna kwenikweni kuti ndikhale ndi moyo wabwino? Ndipo tidafunsa abwenzi athu funso ili. Osati momwe tiyenera kumangirira lamba, koma zomwe timafunikira kuti tikhale ndi moyo wabwino. Ndipo chifukwa chake timafunikira chitetezo chochulukirapo komanso kusinthasintha.

Martin Auer: Tsopano imanenanso kuti kusintha kwa mapangidwe ogwirizana ndi nyengo kumagwirizanitsidwa ndi mikangano yaikulu ya chidwi ndi tanthawuzo, ndipo iyenera kukhala ntchito ya ndale zandale kumvetsetsa mikanganoyi ndikuwonetsa njira zowagonjetsa.

Christoph Goerg: Inde, ndendende. Palinso nthawi yachiwiri, ndale ecology. Zimagwirizana kwambiri ndi chikhalidwe cha anthu. Ndipo pali masukulu osiyanasiyana, koma kwenikweni masukulu onse amavomereza kuti izi zimaphatikizanso mikangano chifukwa tikukhala m'dera lomwe zokonda zimasemphana kwambiri. Mwachitsanzo, pali ntchito zomwe zimadalira gawo lamagalimoto. Muyenera kuziganizira mozama, ndithudi anthu sayenera kutayidwa m'misewu. Muyenera kupanga njira zosinthira. Momwe timasunthira kuchoka ku chuma chokhazikika pamagalimoto kupita ku chomwe sichikhalanso ndi chopinga chimenecho. Mutha kusintha izo. Palinso mapulojekiti omwe mphamvu zambiri zaubongo zimayikidwa mu funso la momwe mungakwaniritsire kutembenuka. Ndipo mu ndale zachilengedwe mapulojekiti osinthika otere amatha kupangidwa.

Ngati tiyang'ana ku Germany: N'zotheka, mwachitsanzo, kuchita popanda lignite. Panali ochepa omwe ankagwira ntchito mu lignite, ndipo pambuyo pa 1989 iwo sanakhumudwe kuti lignite inagwa pang'ono. Zinali zoipa kwa chilengedwe, zinali zoipitsa kwambiri kotero kuti, ngakhale kuti anachotsedwa ntchito, anati: moyo uli bwinoko. Mungachitenso chimodzimodzi kwinakwake ngati mungapatse anthu tsogolo labwino. Zachidziwikire, muyenera kuwapatsa malingaliro, ndipo ayenera kuwakulitsa pamodzi. Iyi ndi ntchito yosatheka yokha.

Kodi ntchito yothandiza anthu ndi chiyani?

Martin Auer: Ndinkangoyang'ana chitsanzo cha mbiri yakale Lucas plan. Ogwira ntchito, ogwira ntchito mu holo ya fakitale, adapanga njira zina pamodzi ndi okonza mapulani ndipo, pofuna kupewa kuchotsedwa ntchito, adafuna "ufulu wogwira ntchito zothandiza anthu".

Christoph Goerg: Ichi ndi chitsanzo chabwino kwambiri. Imeneyo inali bizinesi ya zida, ndipo antchitowo anafunsa kuti: kodi tiyenera kupanga zida? Kapena tiyenera kupanga zinthu zothandiza anthu. Ndipo iwo anazipanga izo okha. Ili linali dongosolo losintha, kuchoka ku fakitale ya zida kupita ku fakitale yopanda zida. Ndipo ambiri ayesa kuphunzirapo kanthu. Mukhoza kutenga izi lero, mwachitsanzo, kuti mutembenuzire makampani opanga magalimoto, mwachitsanzo, kuti mutembenuzire ku mafakitale ena. Iyenera kupangidwa, sikuyenera kukhala chithandizo chodzidzimutsa, makampani sayenera kugwa. Muyenera kuchita izi m'njira yomwe imatengera mantha a anthu mozama ndikuthana nawo mopewa. Tapanga ma projekiti kuno ndi mabungwe. Kodi mabungwe azamalonda mumakampani ogulitsa magalimoto ku Austria angabweretsedwe bwanji ngati ochita kusintha? Kuti asakhale otsutsa koma ochirikiza kusintha ngati kukuchitika mwachilungamo.

Martin Auer: Anthu a Lucas anasonyeza kuti: Ndife anthu amene timachita zinthu. Anthu amenewa alidi ndi mphamvu zonena kuti: Sitikufuna kuchita zimenezo. Anthu a m’sitoloyo angakhaledi ndi mphamvu zonena kuti: Sitikuyika zinthu zilizonse zokhala ndi mafuta a kanjedza pamashelefu, sitikuchita zimenezo. Kapena: Sitimamanga ma SUV, sitichita zimenezo.

Christoph Goerg: Mukufuna kusintha kuti ogwira ntchito azinena zambiri, osati za maola ogwira ntchito okha komanso zokhudzana ndi malonda. Ili ndi funso lofunika kwambiri, makamaka m'gawo lautumiki lero - ndiloleni nditchule Corona - kuti ogwira ntchito m'mabungwe osamalira anthu ali ndi mwayi wogwirizana m'dera lawo. Taphunzira zomwe kupsinjika kwa mliri wa corona kumatanthauza kwa ogwira ntchito. Ndipo kupanga mipata kuti iwo athandizire kukonza malo awo ogwirira ntchito ndikufunika kwa ola.

Kufunsa mphamvu ndi ulamuliro

Martin Auer: Izi zikutifikitsa kumapeto kwa mutuwu, womwe umati magulu a anthu omwe amasokoneza mphamvu zomwe zilipo kale komanso maulamuliro omwe alipo amapangitsa kuti mapangidwe ogwirizana ndi nyengo akhale ovuta.

Christoph Goerg: Inde, imeneyo ndi nthano yolunjika. Koma ndikukhulupirira kuti akunena zoona. Ndine wotsimikiza kuti mavuto omwe alipo panopa komanso mavuto omwe akukumana nawo ali ndi chochita ndi ulamuliro. Ochita zisudzo ena, mwachitsanzo omwe amawongolera mafuta oyaka, amakhala ndi mphamvu zamapangidwe ndipo amalamulira magawo ena, ndipo mphamvuyi iyenera kusweka. Makamaka m'dera lomwe mawu oti "zigawenga zanyengo" amamveka bwino, makamaka pankhani yamakampani akuluakulu opangira zinthu zakale, mwachitsanzo, Exxon Mobile etc., anali zigawenga zanyengo chifukwa, ngakhale adadziwa zomwe akuchita, adapitilizabe. ndipo anayesa kuletsa chidziwitso chazovuta zanyengo ndipo tsopano akuyesera kuchita nawo bizinesi. Ndipo maubale amphamvu awa ayenera kusweka. Simungathe kuwachotseratu, koma muyenera kukwaniritsa kuti mwayi wopanga anthu ukhale wotseguka. Iwo anakwanitsa kuonetsetsa kuti mawu oti “mphamvu zakufa zakale” sakuphatikizidwa m’mapangano aliwonse a Framework Convention on Climate Change. Choyambitsa chenicheni sichimatchulidwa. Ndipo iyo ndi nkhani ya mphamvu, ya ulamuliro. Ndipo tiyenera kuswa izo. Tiyenera kulankhula za zomwe zimayambitsa ndipo tiyenera kufunsa popanda kuletsa kuganiza, tingasinthe bwanji.

Martin Auer: Ndikuganiza kuti tikhoza kusiya zimenezo ngati mawu omaliza tsopano. Zikomo kwambiri chifukwa cha zokambiranazi!

Chithunzi Chachikuto: Jharia Coal Mine India. Chithunzi: TripodStories kudzera Wikipedia, CC NDI-SA 4.0