Ukuguqulwa Okukhulu Kwesi-2: Ukusuka Emakethe Ukuya Embonweni Womphakathi I-S4F AT

Inguquko eya ekuphileni evumelana nesimo sezulu e-Austria ingenzeka kanjani? Yilokhu umbiko wamanje we-APCC othi “Izakhiwo zempilo evumelana nesimo sezulu”. Akabheki ukuguquka kwesimo sezulu ngokombono wesayensi, kodwa ufingqa okutholwe yisayensi yezenhlalo kulo mbuzo. UDkt. Margret Haderer ungomunye wababhali balo mbiko futhi wayenesibopho, phakathi kokunye, ngesahluko esinesihloko esithi: “Amathemba okuhlaziywa nokuklanywa kwezakhiwo zokuphila ezivumelana nesimo sezulu”. UMartin Auer ukhuluma naye ngemibono ehlukene yesayensi embuzweni wezakhiwo ezivumelana nesimo sezulu, eziholela ekuxilongweni kwezinkinga ezihlukene kanye nasezindleleni ezihlukene zezixazululo.

UMartin Auer: Margret othandekayo, umbuzo wokuqala: iyiphi indawo yakho yobungcweti, yini osebenza kuyo futhi ibiyini indima yakho kulo mbiko we-APCC?

UMargaret Haderer: Ngiyisazi sepolitiki ngokuqeqeshwa kanti ngokwengqikithi yencwadi yami empeleni angizange ngibhekane nokuguquguquka kwesimo sezulu, kodwa ngodaba lwezindlu. Kusukela ngibuyele eVienna - ngenza i-PhD yami eNyuvesi yaseToronto - ngabe ngenza isigaba sami se-postdoc ngesihloko sezulu, iphrojekthi yocwaningo eyayibheka ukuthi amadolobha asabela kanjani ekushintsheni kwesimo sezulu, ikakhulukazi ukuthi yimaphi amadolobha aphethe. Futhi kwaba kulo mongo lapho ngacelwa khona ukuthi ngibhale uMbiko we-APCC ngibhekane nesizinda sokusebenzisana kwami ​​nezindaba zemvelo. Lokho kwaba ukusebenzisana cishe iminyaka emibili. Umsebenzi walesi sahluko esinegama elingaqondakali bekuwukuchaza ukuthi yimiphi imibono ekhona kusayensi yezenhlalo mayelana nokubunjwa kokuguquguquka kwesimo sezulu. Umbuzo wokuthi izakhiwo zingaklanywa kanjani ngendlela yokuthi zivumelane nesimo sezulu ngumbuzo wesayensi yezenhlalo. Ososayensi banganikeza impendulo elinganiselwe kulokhu. Ngakho: Uletha kanjani ushintsho emphakathini ukuze ufinyelele umgomo othile.

UMartin Auer: Ube usuhlukanisa lokho ngamaqembu amane amakhulu, le mibono ehlukene. Kungaba yini lokho?

UMargaret Haderer: Ekuqaleni sibheke emithonjeni eminingi yesayensi yezenhlalo sabe sesifinyelela esiphethweni sokuthi imibono emine ibusa kakhulu: umbono wemakethe, bese kuba umbono wokuqamba izinto ezintsha, umbono wokuhlinzeka kanye nombono womphakathi. Le mibono ngayinye isho ukuxilonga okuhlukile - Yiziphi izinselelo zomphakathi ezihlobene nokushintsha kwesimo sezulu? - Futhi izixazululo ezahlukene.

Umbono wemakethe

UMartin Auer:: Iziphi izinto ezigcizelelwa yile mibono yetiyetha eyehlukene eyihlukanisayo?

UMargaret Haderer: Imakethe kanye nemibono emisha empeleni kuyimibono ehamba phambili.

UMartin Auer:  Ukubusa manje kusho kwezombusazwe, enkulumweni yomphakathi?

UMargaret Haderer: Yebo, enkulumweni yeningi, kwezombusazwe, kwezamabhizinisi. Umbono wemakethe uthatha ukuthi inkinga ngezakhiwo ezingenabungane zesimo sezulu ukuthi izindleko zangempela, okungukuthi izindleko zemvelo nezenhlalakahle, zokuphila okungahambisani nesimo sezulu azibonakali: emikhiqizweni, indlela esiphila ngayo, lokho esikudlayo, ukuthi ukuhamba kuklanywe kanjani.

UMartin Auer: Ngakho-ke konke lokhu akuwona amanani, akubonakali ngentengo? Lokho kusho ukuthi umphakathi ukhokha kakhulu.

UMargaret Haderer: Impela. Umphakathi ukhokha kakhulu, kodwa okuningi kuphinde kukhishwe ezizukulwaneni ezizayo noma kuGlobal South. Ubani othwala izindleko zemvelo? Ngokuvamile akuthina, kodwa abantu abahlala kwenye indawo.

UMartin Auer: Futhi umbono wemakethe ufuna ukungenelela kanjani manje?

UMargaret Haderer: Umbono wemakethe uphakamisa ukudala iqiniso lezindleko ngokubeka amanani ezindleko zangaphandle. Intengo ye-CO2 ingaba isibonelo esibambekayo salokhu. Bese kuba nenselelo yokuqaliswa: Ubala kanjani ukukhishwa kwe-CO2, uyawehlisa kube yi-CO2 nje noma wenza intengo ngemiphumela yezenhlalo. Kunezindlela ezahlukene kulo mbono, kodwa umbono wemakethe umayelana nokudala izindleko zangempela. Lokhu kusebenza kangcono kwezinye izindawo kunezinye. Lokhu kungase kusebenze kangcono ngokudla kunasezindaweni lapho ukucabanga kwentengo kuyinkinga ngokwemvelo. Ngakho-ke uma manje usuthatha umsebenzi empeleni ongaqondile ukwenza inzuzo, ngokwesibonelo ukunakekela, uzenza kanjani izindleko zangempela? Inani lemvelo lingaba isibonelo, ingabe kuhle ukubiza intengo ekuphumuleni?

UMartin Auer: Ngakho-ke ingabe sesivele sigxeka umbono wemakethe?

UMargaret Haderer: Yebo. Sibheka yonke imibono: yiziphi izifo, yiziphi izixazululo ezingaba khona, futhi yimiphi imikhawulo. Kodwa akukhona ukudlala ngaphandle kwemibono ngokumelene nomunye, cishe idinga inhlanganisela yayo yonke imibono emine.

UMartin Auer: Okulandelayo kungaba umbono wokusungula?

Umbono wokusungula

UMargaret Haderer: Impela. Saphikisana kakhulu ngokuthi ingabe akuyona yini ingxenye yemakethe noma kunjalo. Futhi le mibono ayikwazi ukuhlukaniswa kakhulu. Umuntu uzama ukucabangela okuthile okungachazwanga ngokucacile eqinisweni.

UMartin Auer: Kodwa akukhona nje mayelana nezinto ezintsha zobuchwepheshe?

UMargaret Haderer: Ukuqamba kabusha kwehliselwa ekusungulweni kwezobuchwepheshe. Lapho sitshelwa abanye osopolitiki ukuthi indlela yangempela yokubhekana nenkinga yesimo sezulu ilele ekusungulweni okusha kwezobuchwepheshe, lowo umbono osabalele. Kubuye kube lula kakhulu ngoba kuthembisa ukuthi kufanele ushintshe kancane ngangokunokwenzeka. Ukuhamba ngezimoto: Kude nenjini evuthayo (manje njengoba "ihambile" isiyantengantenga futhi) ibheke ezindleleni ze-e-mobility, yebo, kufanele futhi uguqule ingqalasizinda, kufanele ushintshe kakhulu uma ufuna ukwenza amanye amandla atholakale. , kodwa ukuhamba kusasele kumthengi wokugcina, umthengi wokugcina njengoba ayenjalo.

UMartin Auer: Wonke umndeni unemoto eyodwa nohhafu, manje sezisebenza ngogesi.

UMargaret Haderer: Yebo. Futhi yilapho umbono wemakethe usondelene kakhulu, ngoba uncike esithembisweni sokuthi ukuthuthukiswa kwezobuchwepheshe kuzobusa emakethe, kudayiswe kahle, nokuthi okuthile okufana nokukhula okuluhlaza kungakhiqizwa lapho. Lokho akusebenzi kahle kangako ngoba kunemiphumela ephindiselayo. Lokhu kusho ukuthi ukuqanjwa kabusha kwezobuchwepheshe kuvame ukuba nemiphumela elandelayo evame ukuba yingozi esimweni sezulu. Ukuhlala nezimoto ze-elekthronikhi: Zisebenzisa kakhulu izinsiza ekukhiqizeni, futhi lokho kusho ukuthi ukukhishwa okuthola phansi lapho cishe ngeke kusetshenziswe. Manje, ngaphakathi kwenkulumo-mpikiswano yokusungula, kukhona nalabo abathi: kufanele sisuke kulo mqondo omncane wokuqanjwa kabusha kwezobuchwepheshe siye emcabangweni obanzi, okuwukuthi ukusungulwa kwezenhlalo nobuchwepheshe. Uyini umehluko? Ngokusungulwa kwezobuchwepheshe, okuseduze nombono wemakethe, umqondo unamandla wokuthi umkhiqizo oluhlaza uzophumelela - ngokufanelekile - futhi sizoba nokukhula okuluhlaza, asikho isidingo sokushintsha noma yini mayelana nokukhula ngokwako. Abantu abakhuthaza ukusungulwa kwenhlalonhle-yezobuchwepheshe noma i-socio-ecological bathi kufanele sinake kakhulu imithelela yomphakathi esifuna ukuyikhiqiza. Uma sifuna ukuba nezakhiwo ezihambisana nesimo sezulu, ngeke sivele sibheke ukuthi yini manje engena emakethe, ngoba ingqondo yemakethe iwumqondo wokukhula. Sidinga umqondo owandisiwe wokuqanjwa kabusha ocabangela imiphumela yezemvelo nenhlalo yomphakathi kakhulu.

UMartin Auer: Isibonelo, hhayi kuphela ukusebenzisa izinto zokwakha ezihlukene, kodwa futhi uhlala ngokuhlukile, izakhiwo zokuhlala ezihlukene, amakamelo avamile ezindlini ukuze ukwazi ukudlula ngezinto ezincane, i-drill yendlu yonke esikhundleni somndeni ngamunye.

UMargaret Haderer: Impela, leso isibonelo esihle kakhulu sokuthi ezinye izinqubo zansuku zonke zikwenza uphile, udle futhi usebenzise izinsiza ezisetshenziswa yiselula. Futhi lesi sibonelo esiphilayo siyisibonelo esihle. Kwaphela isikhathi eside kucatshangwa ukuthi indlu yokwenziwa endaweni eluhlaza kwakuyikusasa lokusimama. Kuyinto emisha yezobuchwepheshe, kodwa izinto eziningi azizange zicatshangelwe: insimu eluhlaza ayizange icatshangwe isikhathi eside, noma ukuthi yikuphi ukuhamba okushiwo - lokho ngokuvamile kungenzeka kuphela ngemoto noma izimoto ezimbili. Ukusungulwa komphakathi kusetha imigomo evamile, njengezakhiwo ezivumelana nesimo sezulu, bese izama ukugxila kubuchwepheshe ngokuhlangana nezinqubo ezithembisa ukufeza lo mgomo ovamile. Ukwanela kuhlale kunendima. Ngakho-ke ungakhi entsha, kodwa vuselela ekhona. Ukwehlukanisa amagumbi ajwayelekile nokwenza amafulethi abe mancane kungaba yinto emisha yakudala yomphakathi.

Umbono wokuthunyelwa

Bese kuba nombono olandelayo, umbono wokuthunyelwa. Bekungelula nokuvumelana ngakho. Umbono wokuhlinzekwa unqamula ekusungulweni komphakathi, okuzibophezele emigomweni evamile. Umakhelwane uqukethe ukuthi umbono wokuhlinzekwa uphinda ungabaze okuhle okuvamile noma inzuzo yomphakathi yento ethile futhi awucabangi ngokuzenzakalelayo ukuthi lokho okukhona emakethe nakho kuhle emphakathini.

UMartin Auer: Ukuthunyelwa manje futhi kuwumqondo onjalo ongacacile. Ubani ohlinzeka ngani?

UMargaret Haderer: Lapho ezihlinzeka, umuntu uzibuza umbuzo obalulekile: izimpahla nezinsizakalo zifika kanjani kithi? Yini enye ekhona ngale kwemakethe? Uma sisebenzisa izimpahla namasevisi, akusona nje imakethe, kusenenqwaba yengqalasizinda yomphakathi ngemuva kwayo. Isibonelo, imigwaqo eyakhiwe esidlangalaleni iletha izimpahla ezivela ku-XYZ, esibe sesizisebenzisa. Lo mbono uthatha ngokuthi umnotho mkhulu kunemakethe. Mningi futhi umsebenzi ongakhokhelwa, ikakhulukazi owenziwa ngabesifazane, futhi imakethe ibingeke isebenze nhlobo ukube bezingekho nezindawo ezigxile emakethe, njengenyuvesi. Akuvamisile ukuthi uzisebenzise ngendlela egxile ekwenzeni inzuzo, noma ngabe kukhona ukuthambekela okunjalo.

UMartin Auer: Ngakho-ke imigwaqo, igridi kagesi, isistimu yendle, ukulahlwa kukadoti...

UMargaret Haderer: …izinkulisa, amakhaya asebekhulile, izithuthi zomphakathi, ukunakekelwa kwezempilo nokunye. Futhi ngenxa yalesi sizinda, kuphakama umbuzo oyisisekelo wezepolitiki: Sikuhlela kanjani ukuphakelwa komphakathi? Iyiphi indima edlalwa imakethe, yiliphi iqhaza okufanele ilibambe, iyiphi indima okufanele ingalidlali? Kungaba yini izinzuzo kanye nokubi kokuhlinzekwa komphakathi okwengeziwe? Lo mbono ugxile kuhulumeni noma ngisho nasedolobheni, hhayi nje njengomuntu odala izimo zemakethe, kodwa ohlale ebumba okuhle okujwayelekile ngandlela thize. Lapho uklama izakhiwo ezingenabungane zesimo sezulu noma ezivumelana nesimo sezulu, ukwakheka kwezombusazwe kuhlala kuhilelekile. Ukuxilongwa kwenkinga ukuthi: Ziqondwa kanjani izinkonzo ezithakaselwayo jikelele? Kunezinhlobo zemisebenzi ehambisana ngokuphelele nomphakathi, njengokunakekela, futhi empeleni edinga izinsiza, kodwa ejabulela ukuqashelwa okuncane.

UMartin Auer: Izindlela ezibanzi zezinsiza: udinga izinsiza ezimbalwa? Ngakho-ke okuphambene nokusetshenziswa kakhulu kwezinsiza?

UMargaret Haderer: Impela. Kodwa-ke, lapho kugxilwe embonweni wemakethe, lezi zinhlobo zomsebenzi zivame ukulinganiswa kabi. Uhola kabi kulezi zindawo, uthola ukuqashelwa okuncane emphakathini. Ubuhlengikazi yisibonelo esinjalo. Umbono wokuhlinzekwa ugcizelela ukuthi imisebenzi efana nosheshi wesitolo esikhulu noma umnakekeli ibaluleke kakhulu ekukhiqizeni kabusha komphakathi. Futhi ngenxa yalesi sizinda, umbuzo uphakama: Ingabe lokhu akufanele kuphinde kuhlolwe uma izakhiwo ezivumelana nesimo sezulu kuwumgomo? Bekungeke yini kube semqoka ukuphinde ucabange ngomsebenzi ubhekene nesizinda: Ngabe lokho empeleni kwenzelani umphakathi?

UMartin Auer: Izidingo eziningi esizithengayo ukuze sanelise zinganeliswa nangezinye izindlela. Ngingathenga i-massager enjalo yasekhaya noma ngingaya kumuntu obhucunga umzimba. Okunethezeka kwangempela yi-masseur. Futhi ngombono wokuhlinzekela, umuntu angaqondisa umnotho kakhulu lapho singashintsha khona izidingo ngempahla ebonakalayo futhi okwengeziwe ngezinkonzo zomuntu siqu.

UMargaret Haderer: Yebo, impela. Noma singabheka amadamu okubhukuda. Kule minyaka edlule sekunomkhuba, ikakhulukazi emaphandleni, wokuthi wonke umuntu abe ne-swimming pool yakhe ngemuva. Uma ufuna ukwakha izakhiwo ezihambisana nesimo sezulu, empeleni udinga umphakathi, idolobha noma izwe elimisayo ngoba lidonsa amanzi amaningi angaphansi komhlaba futhi lihlinzeka ngedamu lokubhukuda lomphakathi.

UMartin Auer: Ngakho eyomphakathi.

UMargaret Haderer: Abanye bakhuluma ngokunethezeka komphakathi njengendlela ehlukile kunokunethezeka kwangasese.

UMartin Auer: Kuhlale kucatshangwa ukuthi inhlangano yobulungiswa besimo sezulu ijwayele ukuzincisha injabulo. Ngicabanga ukuthi kufanele sikugcizelele ngempela ukuthi sifuna ukunethezeka, kodwa uhlobo oluhlukile lokunethezeka. Ngakho-ke ukunethezeka komphakathi yigama elihle kakhulu.

UMargaret Haderer: E-Vienna, okuningi kwenziwa kutholakale esidlangalaleni, izinkulisa, amachibi okubhukuda, izikhungo zezemidlalo, ukuhamba komphakathi. I-Vienna ihlale ithandwa kakhulu ngaphandle.

UMartin Auer: Yebo, iVienna yayivele iyisibonelo enkathini yezimpi, futhi yayiklanywe ngendlela yezombangazwe ngaleyo ndlela. Ngezakhiwo zomphakathi, amapaki, amachibi angaphandle amahhala ezingane, futhi kwakukhona inqubomgomo eqaphela kakhulu ngemuva kwayo.

UMargaret Haderer: Futhi futhi kwaba yimpumelelo kakhulu. I-Vienna ilokhu ithola imiklomelo njengedolobha elinezinga eliphezulu lempilo, futhi ayitholi le miklomelo ngoba yonke into inikezwa ngasese. Ukuhlinzekwa komphakathi kunomthelela omkhulu kuzinga eliphezulu lempilo kuleli dolobha. Futhi ngokuvamile ishibhile, ibukwa isikhathi eside, kunokuba uma ushiya yonke into emakethe bese kufanele ucoshe izingcezu, ngomqondo ongokomfanekiso. Isibonelo esijwayelekile: i-USA inohlelo lokunakekelwa kwezempilo oluzimele, futhi alikho elinye izwe emhlabeni elichitha imali eningi kwezempilo njenge-USA. Basebenzisa imali eningi emphakathini naphezu kokubusa kwabadlali abazimele. Lokho akukona nje ukusebenzisa imali okunenjongo.

UMartin Auer: Ngakho umbono wokuhlinzekwa uzosho ukuthi izindawo ezihlinzekwa umphakathi nazo zizokwandiswa. Khona-ke umbuso noma umasipala unethonya ngempela ekutheni uklanywe kanjani. Enye inkinga ukuthi imigwaqo yenziwa umphakathi, kodwa asinqumi ukuthi imigwaqo yakhiwe kuphi. Bheka umhubhe waseLobau njengesibonelo.

UMargaret Haderer: Yebo, kodwa uma ubungavota emhubheni waseLobau, ingxenye enkulu cishe ibingavumelana nokwakhiwa komhubhe waseLobau.

UMartin Auer: Kungenzeka, kunezintshisekelo eziningi ezihilelekile. Noma kunjalo, ngikholelwa ukuthi abantu bangakwazi ukuzuza imiphumela efanele ezinqubweni zentando yeningi uma izinqubo zingathonywa izithakazelo, isibonelo, ezitshala imali eningi emikhankasweni yokukhangisa.

UMargaret Haderer: Ngeke ngivume. Intando yeningi, noma ngabe imele noma ibambe iqhaza, ayisebenzi ngaso sonke isikhathi ivuna izakhiwo ezivumelana nesimo sezulu. Futhi kungenzeka ukuthi kufanele uvumelane nalokho. Intando yeningi ayisona isiqinisekiso sezakhiwo ezihambisana nesimo sezulu. Uma ubungavota manje enjinini evuthayo yangaphakathi - bekunenhlolovo eJalimane - amaphesenti angama-76 abezophikisana nokuvinjelwa. Intando yeningi ingagqugquzela izinhlaka ezihambisana nesimo sezulu, kodwa futhi zingazibukela phansi. Umbuso, umkhakha kahulumeni, nawo ungakhuthaza izakhiwo ezivumelana nesimo sezulu, kodwa umkhakha womphakathi ungaphinde ukhuthaze noma unamathisele izakhiwo ezingahambisani nesimo sezulu. Umlando wombuso yilowo obulokhu ukhuthaza amafutha ezinto ezimbiwa phansi kula makhulwini ambalwa eminyaka adlule. Ngakho-ke kokubili intando yeningi kanye nombuso njengesikhungo kungaba kokubili isisekelo kanye nebhuleki. Kubalulekile futhi ngokombono wokuhlinzekwa ukuthi uphikisane nenkolelo yokuthi noma nini lapho umbuso ubandakanyeka, kuhle ngokombono wesimo sezulu. Ngokomlando bekungenjalo, yingakho abanye abantu bebona ngokushesha ukuthi sidinga intando yeningi eqondile, kodwa akwenzeki ukuthi kuholele ezinhlakeni ezihambisana nesimo sezulu.

UMartin Auer: Lokhu ngokuqinisekile akuzenzeki. Ngicabanga ukuthi kuncike kakhulu ekutheni unakho ukuqonda. Kuyamangaza ukuthi sinemiphakathi embalwa e-Austria evumelana kakhulu nesimo sezulu kunesifundazwe sisonke. Lapho uya phansi kakhulu, yilapho abantu benokuqonda okwengeziwe, ukuze bakwazi ukuhlola kangcono imiphumela yesinqumo esisodwa noma esinye. Noma iCalifornia inobungani bezulu kakhulu kune-US iyonke.

UMargaret Haderer: Kuyiqiniso e-USA ukuthi amadolobha kanye namazwe afana neCalifornia avame ukudlala indima yokuphayona. Kodwa uma ubheka inqubomgomo yezemvelo eYurophu, umbuso we-supranational, okungukuthi i-EU, empeleni inhlangano ebeka izindinganiso eziningi.

UMartin Auer: Kodwa uma manje ngibheka iCitizens’ Climate Council, ngokwesibonelo, beza nemiphumela emihle kakhulu futhi benza iziphakamiso ezinhle kakhulu. Lokho bekuyinqubo nje lapho ungagcinanga khona ukuvota, kodwa lapho ufika khona ezinqumweni ngezeluleko zesayensi.

UMargaret Haderer: Angifuni ukuphikisana nezinqubo zokubamba iqhaza, kodwa kufanele kuthathwe izinqumo. Odabeni lwenjini evuthayo, bekungaba kuhle uma bekunqunywa ezingeni le-EU bese kufanele isetshenziswe. Ngicabanga ukuthi kuthatha kokubili. Izinqumo zezombangazwe ziyadingeka, njengomthetho wokuvikela isimo sezulu, obuye ushaywe, futhi vele nokuhlanganyela kuyadingeka.

Umbono womphakathi

UMartin Auer: Lokhu kusiletha embonweni wenhlalo nowemvelo.

UMargaret Haderer: Yebo, lokho bekuwumthwalo wami ngokuyinhloko, futhi kumayelana nokuhlaziya okujulile. Lezi zinhlaka, izindawo zomphakathi esithuthela kuzo, zaba yilokho eziyikho, singene kanjani enkingeni yesimo sezulu? Ngakho-ke lokhu manje sekujula kunokuthi “amagesi abamba ukushisa amaningi emkhathini”. Umbono womphakathi nawo uyabuza ngokomlando ukuthi safika kanjani lapho. Lapha siphakathi nendawo yomlando wesimanje, owawugxile kakhulu e-Europe, umlando wezimboni, ubunxiwankulu nokunye. Lokhu kusiletha engxoxweni ethi “Anthropocene”. Inkinga yesimo sezulu inomlando omude, kepha kwaba khona ukusheshisa okukhulu ngemuva kweMpi Yezwe II ngokujwayezwa kwezinto zokubasa ezimbiwa phansi, ukuhamba kwezimoto, ukusabalala kwamadolobha, njll. Indaba emfushane ngempela leyo. Kwavela izakhiwo ezinwetshiwe, ezidinga izinsiza futhi ezingenabulungisa emphakathini, nasemhlabeni jikelele. Lokho kuhlobene kakhulu nokwakhiwa kabusha ngemuva kweMpi Yezwe Yesibili, ngeFordism1, ukusungulwa kwemiphakathi yabathengi, eqhutshwa amandla ezinto ezimbiwa phansi. Lokhu kuthuthukiswa kuphinde kwahambisana nokuthathwa kwamakholoni kanye nokumba2 kwezinye izindawo. Ngakho-ke ayizange isatshalaliswe ngokulinganayo. Lokho okwacatshangelwa lapha njengezinga elihle lokuphila kwakungeke kusetshenziswe emhlabeni wonke ngokwemibandela yezinsiza.Impilo enhle enendlu yomndeni owodwa nemoto idinga izinsiza eziningi ezivela kwenye indawo, ukuze kwenye indawo omunye umuntu empeleni akenzi kanjalo. kahle, futhi inombono wobulili. I-“Anthropocene” ayiyena umuntu ngamunye. “Umuntu” [obhekele i-Anthropocene] uhlala eGlobal North futhi ungowesilisa kakhulu. I-Anthropocene isuselwe ekungalinganini kobulili nokungalingani komhlaba wonke. Imiphumela yenkinga yesimo sezulu isakazwa ngokungalingani, kodwa kunjalo nembangela yesimo sezulu. Kwakungeyena “umuntu onjalo” owayehilelekile. Kumele ubhekisise kahle ukuthi yiziphi izinhlaka ezibhekelela ukuthi sibe lapho sikhona. Akukhona mayelana nokuziphatha. Kodwa-ke, umuntu uyaqaphela ukuthi izindaba zobulungiswa zihlala zinesinqumo sokunqoba inkinga yesimo sezulu. Ubulungiswa phakathi kwezizukulwane, ubulungisa phakathi kwabesilisa nabesifazane kanye nobulungiswa bomhlaba wonke.

UMartin Auer: Siphinde sibe nokungalingani okukhulu ngaphakathi kweGlobal South kanye naseGlobal North. Kunabantu ukuguquka kwesimo sezulu okungeyona inkinga kubo ngoba bekwazi ukuzivikela kahle kukho.

UMargaret Haderer: Isibonelo nge-air conditioning. Akuwona wonke umuntu ongakwazi ukuzikhokhela, futhi abhebhethekisa inkinga yesimo sezulu. Ngingakwenza kuphole, kodwa ngisebenzisa amandla engeziwe futhi omunye umuntu uthwala izindleko.

UMartin Auer: Futhi ngizoshisa idolobha ngokushesha. Noma ngingakwazi ukushayela ngiye ezintabeni lapho kushisa kakhulu noma indizele kwenye indawo ngokuphelele.

UMargaret Haderer: Ikhaya lesibili nezinto, yebo.

UMartin Auer: Ingabe ngempela umuntu angasho ukuthi izithombe ezehlukene zesintu zidlala indima kule mibono ehlukene?

UMargaret Haderer: Ngingakhuluma ngemibono ehlukene mayelana nomphakathi kanye noshintsho emphakathini.

UMartin Auer: Ngakho kukhona, isibonelo, isithombe "Homo oeconomicus".

UMargaret Haderer: Yebo, sikuxoxile nalokho. Ngakho-ke i-"homo oeconomicus" izoba yinto ejwayelekile kumbono wemakethe. Umuntu osesimweni somphakathi futhi oncike emphakathini, emisebenzini yabanye, uyobe esewumfanekiso wombono wokuhlinzekwa. Ngokombono womphakathi, ziningi izithombe zabantu, futhi yilapho kuba nzima khona. "I-Homo socialis" ingashiwo mayelana nombono womphakathi kanye nombono wokuhlinzeka.

UMartin Auer: Ingabe umbuzo “wezidingo zangempela” zabantu uphakanyiswa ngezindlela ezehlukene? Yini ngempela abantu abayidingayo? Angiyidingi ngempela i-heater yegesi, kufanele ngifudumale, ngidinga ukufudumala. Ngidinga ukudla, kodwa kungaba ngenye indlela, ngingadla inyama noma ngidle imifino. Emkhakheni wezempilo, isayensi yokudla okunomsoco ivumelana ngazwi linye ngalokho abantu abakudingayo, kodwa ingabe lo mbuzo ukhona nangomqondo obanzi?

UMargaret Haderer: Umbono ngamunye ukhombisa izimpendulo zalo mbuzo. Umbono wemakethe uthatha ukuthi senza izinqumo eziphusile, ukuthi izidingo zethu zichazwa yilokho esikuthengayo. Ekuhlinzekeni nasekubukeni komphakathi, kucatshangwa ukuthi lokho esikucabanga njengezidingo kuhlala kwakhiwa emphakathini. Izidingo nazo ziyakhiqizwa, ngokukhangisa nokunye. Kodwa uma izakhiwo ezihambisana nesimo sezulu kuwumgomo, kungase kube nesidingo esisodwa noma ezimbili esingeke sisakwazi ukuzikhokhela. NgesiNgisi kunomehluko omuhle phakathi "kwezidingo" kanye "nokufunwa" - okungukuthi izidingo nezifiso. Isibonelo, kunocwaningo oluthi isilinganiso sobukhulu befulethi yomndeni owodwa ngokushesha ngemva kweMpi Yezwe Yesibili, eyayivele ibhekwa njengokunethezeka ngaleso sikhathi, ubukhulu obungatholakala emhlabeni wonke kahle. Kodwa okwenzeka emkhakheni wendlu yomndeni owodwa kusukela ngeminyaka yawo-1990 kuya phambili - izindlu ziye zaba nkulu kakhulu - into efana naleyo ngeke yenzeke emhlabeni wonke.

UMartin Auer: Ngicabanga ukuthi igama elithi Universal igama elilungile. Impilo enhle yawo wonke umuntu kufanele ibe ngeyawo wonke umuntu, futhi okokuqala izidingo eziyisisekelo kufanele zaneliswe.

UMargaret Haderer: Yebo, sezikhona izifundo kulokhu, kodwa futhi kukhona impikiswano ebucayi mayelana nokuthi inganqunywa ngempela ngale ndlela. Kunezifundo zezenhlalo nezengqondo kulokhu, kodwa kulukhuni kwezombusazwe ukungenelela, ngoba okungenani ngokombono wemakethe kungaba ukungena kwenkululeko yomuntu ngamunye. Kodwa akuwona wonke umuntu ongakwazi ukukhokhela ichibi lakhe.

UMartin Auer: Ngikholwa ukuthi ukukhula nakho kubukwa ngendlela ehluke kakhulu emibonweni yomuntu ngamunye. Ngokombono wemakethe kuwumbono wokuthi umnotho kufanele ukhule, ngakolunye uhlangothi kunemibono eyanele kanye nokuwohloka komnotho ethi kufanele futhi kube nokwenzeka ukuthi ngesikhathi esithile: Yebo, manje sekwanele, sekwanele, akudingeki kube ngaphezulu.

UMargaret Haderer: Isibopho sokuqongelela kanye nokubalulekile kokukhula kubhalwe ngendlela ebuka ngayo imakethe. Kodwa ngisho nakumbono wokuqanjwa kabusha nokuhlinzekwa, umuntu akacabangi ukuthi ukukhula kuzoma ngokuphelele. Iphuzu lapha liwukuthi: Kufanele sikhule kuphi futhi kuphi lapho akufanele sikhule noma kufanele sinciphe futhi "sivumbulule", okungukuthi ukuhlehlisa kabusha. Ngokombono womphakathi, ungabona ukuthi ngakolunye uhlangothi izinga lethu lokuphila lisekelwe ekukhuleni, kodwa ngesikhathi esifanayo libhubhisa kakhulu, ngokomlando. Umbuso wezenhlalakahle, njengoba wakhiwe, usekelwe ekukhuleni, isibonelo izinhlelo zokuvikela impesheni. Uquqaba olubanzi luyazuza ekukhuleni, futhi lokho kwenza ukwakhiwa kwezakhiwo ezivumelana nesimo sezulu kube inselele kakhulu. Abantu bayesaba lapho bezwa ngokukhula kwangemva kokukhula. Okunye okunikezwayo kuyadingeka.

UMartin Auer: Ngiyabonga kakhulu, Margret othandekayo, ngale ngxoxo.

Le interview iyingxenye yesi-2 yethu Uchungechunge kumbiko Okhethekile we-APCC "Izakhiwo zokuphila okuvumelana nesimo sezulu".
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Izithombe:
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I-Monorail. LM07 nge-pixabay
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Abavukuzi baseNigeria.  I-Atlas yobulungiswa bezemvelo,  I-CC-BY 2.0

1 I-Fordism, eyathuthukiswa ngemva kweMpi Yezwe Yokuqala, yayisekelwe ekukhiqizeni ngobuningi obusezingeni eliphezulu ukuze kusetshenziswe abantu abaningi, umsebenzi womugqa wokuhlanganisa onezinyathelo zokusebenza ezihlukaniswe ngamayunithi amancane kakhulu, isiyalo esiqinile somsebenzi kanye nobudlelwano obufiswayo bezenhlalakahle phakathi kwabasebenzi nosomabhizinisi.

2 ukuxhashazwa kwezinto ezingavuthiwe