ʻO ka hoʻohuli nui ʻana 2: mai ka mākeke a hiki i ke ʻano o ka hui S4F AT

Pehea e maʻalahi ai ka hoʻololi ʻana i kahi ola pili i ke aniau ma Austria? ʻO kēia ka mea e pili ana i ka hōʻike APCC o kēia manawa "Nā hoʻonohonoho no ke ola pili i ke ea". ʻAʻole ʻo ia e nānā i ka hoʻololi ʻana i ke aniau mai ka ʻike ʻepekema, akā hōʻuluʻulu ʻo ia i nā ʻike o ka ʻepekema pilikanaka e pili ana i kēia nīnau. ʻO Kauka Margret Haderer kekahi o nā mea kākau o ka hōʻike a ʻo ia ke kuleana, ma waena o nā mea ʻē aʻe, no ka mokuna i kapa ʻia: "Prospects for the analysis and design of structures for climate-friendly living". Ua kamaʻilio ʻo Martin Auer iā ia e pili ana i nā manaʻo ʻepekema ʻē aʻe e pili ana i nā hale pili i ke aniau, kahi e alakaʻi ai i nā ʻike pilikia like ʻole a me nā ala hoʻonā like ʻole.

Martin Auer: E Dear Margret, nīnau mua: he aha kāu wahi o ka ʻike, he aha kāu e hana nei a he aha kāu kuleana i kēia hōʻike APCC?

Margaret Haderer: He ʻepekema politika au ma ke aʻo ʻana a ma ka pōʻaiapili o kaʻu dissertation ʻaʻole wau i pili i ka hoʻololi ʻana i ke aniau, akā me ka pilikia hale. Mai koʻu hoʻi ʻana mai i Vienna - ke hana nei au i kaʻu PhD ma ke Kulanui o Toronto - a laila hana wau i kaʻu postdoc phase ma ke kumuhana o ke aniau, kahi papahana noiʻi e nānā ana i ke ʻano o nā kūlanakauhale i ka hoʻololi ʻana i ke aniau, ʻoi aku ka nui o nā kūlanakauhale e hoʻomalu nei. A i loko o kēia poʻomanaʻo i noi ʻia iaʻu e kākau i ka APCC Report e pili ana i ke ʻano o koʻu hoʻopili ʻana me nā pilikia kaiapuni. ʻO ia ka hui like ʻana o ʻelua makahiki. ʻO ka hana o kēia mokuna me ka inoa paʻa ʻole, ʻo ia ka wehewehe ʻana i nā manaʻo koʻikoʻi i loko o ka ʻepekema pilikanaka e pili ana i ka hoʻololi ʻana i ke aniau. ʻO ka nīnau e pili ana i ke ʻano o ka hoʻolālā ʻia ʻana o nā hale i ke ʻano e lilo ai lākou i mea pili i ke aniau, he nīnau ʻepekema pilikanaka. Hiki i nā kānaka ʻepekema ke hāʻawi i ka pane palena wale i kēia. No laila: Pehea ʻoe e hoʻololi ai i ka nohona i mea e hoʻokō ai i kahi pahuhopu.

Martin Auer: A laila, mahele ʻoe i kēlā i ʻehā mau pūʻulu nui, ʻo kēia mau hiʻohiʻona like ʻole. He aha kēlā?

Margaret Haderer: I ka hoʻomaka ʻana, nānā mākou i nā kumu ʻepekema pilikanaka a hiki i ka hopena he ʻehā mau manaʻo nui loa: ka manaʻo mākeke, a laila ka manaʻo hou, ka manaʻo hoʻolako a me ka hiʻohiʻona kaiaulu. Hōʻike kēlā me kēia manaʻo i nā maʻi maʻi like ʻole - He aha nā pilikia o ke kaiāulu e pili ana i ka hoʻololi ʻana i ke aniau? - A me nā hoʻonā like ʻole.

ʻO ke kuanaʻike mākeke

Martin Auer:: He aha nā manaʻo koʻikoʻi o kēia mau manaʻo manaʻo like ʻole e hoʻokaʻawale iā lākou mai kekahi i kekahi?

Margaret Haderer: ʻO ka mākeke a me nā hiʻohiʻona hou he mau hiʻohiʻona nui loa.

Martin Auer:  ʻO Dominant i kēia manawa ke ʻano o ka politika, ma ka haʻi ʻōlelo lehulehu?

Margaret Haderer: ʻAe, ma ke kamaʻilio lehulehu, ma ka politika, ma ka ʻoihana. Manaʻo ka manaʻo o ka mākeke ʻo ka pilikia me nā hale pili ʻole i ke aniau, ʻaʻole i ʻike ʻia nā kumukūʻai ʻoiaʻiʻo, ʻo ia hoʻi nā koina kaiaola a me ka pilikanaka, o ka nohona pili ʻole i ke aniau: i nā huahana, pehea mākou e noho ai, nā mea a mākou e ʻai ai, pehea i hoʻolālā ʻia ai ka neʻe.

Martin Auer: No laila ʻaʻole kūʻai ʻia kēia mau mea a pau, ʻaʻole ʻike ʻia i ke kumukūʻai? ʻO ia hoʻi, nui ka uku o ke kaiāulu.

Margaret Haderer: Pololei. Uku nui ʻia ka lehulehu, akā nui ka nui i waho i nā hanauna e hiki mai ana a i ʻole i ka Global South. ʻO wai ka mea e lawe i nā koina kaiapuni? ʻAʻole pinepine mākou, akā ka poʻe e noho ana ma kahi ʻē.

Martin Auer: A pehea ka manaʻo o ka mākeke e makemake e komo i kēia manawa?

Margaret Haderer: Manaʻo ka manaʻo o ka mākeke e hana i ka ʻoiaʻiʻo o ke kumukūʻai ma ke kumu kūʻai ʻana i nā kumukūʻai waho. ʻO ke kumu kūʻai CO2 he laʻana paʻa loa o kēia. A laila aia ka paʻakikī o ka hoʻokō: Pehea ʻoe e helu ai i nā hoʻoiho CO2, e hoʻemi ʻoe iā ia i CO2 wale nō a i ʻole ke kumu kūʻai ʻana i nā hopena pilikanaka. Aia nā ala like ʻole i loko o kēia kuanaʻike, akā ʻo ka ʻike mākeke e pili ana i ka hana ʻana i nā kumukūʻai maoli. ʻOi aku ka maikaʻi o kēia ma kekahi mau wahi ma mua o nā wahi ʻē aʻe. ʻOi aku ka maikaʻi o kēia me ka meaʻai ma mua o nā wahi i pilikia ke kumu o ke kumu kūʻai. No laila, inā ʻoe e hana i kēia manawa i ka hana ʻaʻole pono ka waiwai, no ka laʻana mālama, pehea ʻoe e hana ai i nā kumukūʻai maoli? He laʻana ka waiwai o ke ʻano, maikaʻi anei ke kumukūʻai i ka hoʻomaha?

Martin Auer: No laila ke hoʻohewa nei mākou i ka ʻike mākeke?

Margaret Haderer: ʻAe. Nānā mākou i kēlā me kēia hiʻohiʻona: he aha nā diagnoses, he aha nā hopena hiki, a he aha nā palena. Akā ʻaʻole ia e pili ana i ka pāʻani ʻana i nā manaʻo kūʻē kekahi i kekahi, pono paha ka hui ʻana o nā manaʻo ʻehā.

Martin Auer: ʻO ka mea hou aʻe, ʻo ia ka manaʻo hou?

ʻO ke kuanaʻike hou

Margaret Haderer: Pololei. Ua hoʻopaʻapaʻa nui mākou e pili ana inā ʻaʻole ia he ʻāpana o ka ʻike mākeke. ʻAʻole hiki ke hoʻokaʻawale ʻia kēia mau kuanaʻike. Ho'āʻo kekahi e noʻonoʻo i kahi mea i wehewehe ʻole ʻia i ka ʻoiaʻiʻo.

Martin Auer: Akā, ʻaʻole ia e pili ana i nā hana ʻenehana?

Margaret Haderer: Hoʻemi nui ʻia ka hana hou i ka hana ʻenehana. Ke haʻi ʻia mai iā mākou e kekahi poʻe kālai'āina ʻo ke ala ʻoiaʻiʻo e hoʻoponopono ai i ka pilikia aniau aia i loko o nā ʻenehana hou aʻe, ʻo ia ka manaʻo ākea. He mea maʻalahi nō hoʻi no ka mea ua hoʻohiki ʻoe e hoʻololi liʻiliʻi e like me ka hiki. Automobility: Ma waho aʻe o ka ʻenekini puhi ahi (i kēia manawa ua haʻalulu hou ka "hele") i ka e-mobility, ʻae, pono ʻoe e hoʻololi i nā ʻōnaehana, pono ʻoe e hoʻololi nui inā makemake ʻoe e loaʻa ka ikehu ʻē aʻe. , akā mau ka neʻe ʻana no ka mea kūʻai hope, ka mea kūʻai hope e like me ia.

Martin Auer: Hoʻokahi a me ka hapa kaʻa kaʻa o kēlā me kēia ʻohana, i kēia manawa wale nō ka uila.

Margaret Haderer: ʻAe. A ma laila kahi kokoke loa ka manaʻo o ka mākeke, no ka mea, hilinaʻi ia i ka ʻōlelo hoʻohiki e lanakila nā ʻenehana hou ma ka mākeke, kūʻai maikaʻi ʻia, a hiki ke hana ʻia kahi mea e like me ka ulu ʻōmaʻomaʻo. ʻAʻole maikaʻi kēlā no ka mea aia nā hopena rebound. ʻO ia hoʻi, loaʻa i nā ʻenehana hou nā hopena ma hope e pōʻino pinepine ai i ke aniau. No ka noho ʻana me nā kaʻa uila: He waiwai nui lākou i ka hana ʻana, a ʻo ia hoʻi, ʻaʻole e kūʻai ʻia nā mea hoʻokuʻu āu e loaʻa ai i laila. I kēia manawa, i loko o ka hoʻopaʻapaʻa hana hou, aia kekahi poʻe e ʻōlelo nei: pono mākou e neʻe aku mai kēia manaʻo haiki o ka ʻenehana ʻenehana i kahi manaʻo ākea, ʻo ia hoʻi nā ʻenehana ʻenehana. He aha ka ʻokoʻa? Me ka ʻenehana hou, kahi kokoke i ka mākeke kuanaʻike, lanakila ka manaʻo e lanakila ka hua ʻōmaʻomaʻo - kūpono - a laila e loaʻa iā mākou ka ulu ʻōmaʻomaʻo, ʻaʻole pono mākou e hoʻololi i kekahi mea e pili ana i ka ulu ʻana. ʻO ka poʻe e kākoʻo nei i ka ʻenehana socio-technical a i ʻole socio-ecological innovations e ʻōlelo mākou e uku nui aku i nā hopena pili kaiaulu a mākou e makemake ai e hana. Inā makemake mākou e loaʻa i nā hale e pili ana i ke ea, a laila ʻaʻole hiki iā mākou ke nānā wale i ka mea e loaʻa nei i ka ʻae ʻia ma ka mākeke, no ka mea, ʻo ka loina o ka mākeke ke kumu o ka ulu. Pono mākou i kahi manaʻo hoʻonui e pili ana i ka hopena o ke kaiaola a me ka pilikanaka.

Martin Auer: Eia kekahi laʻana,ʻaʻole wale i ka hoʻohanaʻana i nā mea hana hale likeʻole, akā, ke ola likeʻole, nā hale noho likeʻole, nā lumi maʻamau i nā hale i hiki ai iāʻoe ke loaʻa me ka liʻiliʻi o nā mea, kahi drill no ka hale holoʻokoʻa ma kahi o hoʻokahi no kēlā me kēiaʻohana.

Margaret Haderer: ʻOiaʻiʻo, he laʻana maikaʻi loa ia o ke ʻano o nā hana ʻē aʻe o kēlā me kēia lā e ola ai ʻoe, ʻai a lilo i mea paʻa i ka waiwai. A he laʻana maikaʻi kēia hiʻohiʻona ola. No ka manawa lōʻihi, ua manaʻo ʻia ʻo ka hale passive ma ke kula ʻōmaʻomaʻo ke ʻano o ka hoʻomau. He hana ʻenehana ia, akā ʻaʻole i noʻonoʻo ʻia nā mea he nui: ʻaʻole i noʻonoʻo ʻia ke kula ʻōmaʻomaʻo no ka manawa lōʻihi, a i ʻole he aha ka mobility e hōʻike ai - ʻo ia ka mea maʻamau me kahi kaʻa a ʻelua mau kaʻa. Hoʻokumu ka ʻenehana hou i nā pahuhopu maʻamau, e like me nā hale pili i ke ea, a laila hoʻāʻo e kālele i nā ʻenehana i hui pū ʻia me nā hana e hoʻohiki nei e hoʻokō i kēia pahuhopu maʻamau. He kuleana mau ka lawa. No laila ʻaʻole pono e kūkulu hou, akā e hoʻoponopono hou i ka mea i loaʻa. ʻO ka hoʻokaʻawale ʻana i nā lumi maʻamau a ʻoi aku ka liʻiliʻi o nā keʻena e lilo ia i mea hana hou kaiapili.

ʻO ke kuanaʻike hoʻolaha

A laila aia ka manaʻo aʻe, ka hiʻohiʻona deployment. ʻAʻole maʻalahi ka ʻae ʻana i kekahi. ʻO ka manaʻo hoʻolako e pili ana i ka hana hou o ka nohona, i hoʻopaʻa ʻia i nā pahuhopu normative. Aia ke kaiāulu i ka ʻoiaʻiʻo e nīnau ana ka manaʻo hoʻolako i ka pono maʻamau a i ʻole ka pōmaikaʻi kaiapili o kekahi mea a ʻaʻole i manaʻo ʻokoʻa ʻo ka mea i lanakila ma ka mākeke he maikaʻi pū kekahi.

Martin Auer: ʻO ka hoʻohana ʻana i kēia manawa he manaʻo abstract. Na wai e hoʻolako i ka mea no wai?

Margaret Haderer: I ka hāʻawi ʻana iā lākou, nīnau kekahi iā ia iho i ka nīnau kumu: pehea e loaʻa ai nā waiwai a me nā lawelawe iā mākou? He aha hou aʻe ma waho o ka mākeke? Ke ʻai mākou i nā waiwai a me nā lawelawe, ʻaʻole ia ma ka mākeke wale nō, aia nō ka nui o nā ʻoihana lehulehu ma hope o ia. No ka laʻana, ʻo nā alanui i kūkulu ʻia i ka lehulehu e lawe mai iā mākou i nā waiwai mai XYZ, a laila mākou e ʻai ai. Ke manaʻo nei kēia manaʻo he ʻoi aku ka nui o ka hoʻokele waiwai ma mua o ka mākeke. He nui nō hoʻi nā hana i uku ʻole ʻia, ʻo ka hapa nui o nā wahine i hana, a ʻaʻole e holo ka mākeke inā ʻaʻole i emi iki nā wahi kūʻai kūʻai, e like me ke kulanui. ʻAʻole hiki iā ʻoe ke holo iā lākou me ka loaʻa kālā, ʻoiai inā he mau ʻano like.

Martin Auer: No laila, nā alanui, ka mana mana, ka ʻōpala, ka ʻōpala ...

Margaret Haderer: … nā kindergarten, hale hoʻomaha, kaʻa lehulehu, mālama kino a pēlā aku. A e kūʻē i kēia ʻano, ua kū mai kahi nīnau politika kumu: Pehea mākou e hoʻonohonoho ai i ka lako lehulehu? He aha ke kuleana o ka mākeke, he aha ke kuleana, he aha ke kuleana ʻaʻole ia e pāʻani? He aha nā pōmaikaʻi a me nā pōʻino o ka lako lehulehu? Ke nānā nei kēia hiʻohiʻona i ka mokuʻāina a i ʻole ke kūlanakauhale, ʻaʻole wale me ka mea nāna i hoʻokumu i nā kūlana mākeke, akā nāna i hana mau i ka maikaʻi maʻamau ma kekahi ʻano a i ʻole. I ka hoʻolālā ʻana i nā hale ʻoluʻolu ʻole a i ʻole e pili ana i ke aniau, pili mau ka hoʻolālā politika. ʻO kahi hōʻailona pilikia: Pehea e hoʻomaopopo ʻia ai nā lawelawe o ka makemake nui? Aia nā ʻano hana e pili pono ana i ka pilikanaka, e like me ka mālama ʻana, a he waiwai maoli nō, akā ʻoluʻolu ka ʻike.

Martin Auer: Loaʻa nā kumu waiwai: pono ʻoe i nā kumuwaiwai liʻiliʻi? No laila ke kū'ē i ka waiwai-intensive?

Margaret Haderer: Pololei. Eia nō naʻe, ke kau nei ka manaʻo ma ke kuanaʻike mākeke, ʻike pinepine ʻia kēia mau ʻano hana i ka maikaʻi ʻole. Loaʻa iā ʻoe ka uku maikaʻi ʻole ma kēia mau wahi, loaʻa iā ʻoe ka ʻike pilikino liʻiliʻi. ʻO ke kahu hānai he laʻana maʻamau. Hōʻike ka manaʻo hoʻolako he mea koʻikoʻi nā hana e like me ka hale kūʻai kūʻai kūʻai nui a i ʻole kahu mālama no ka hana hou ʻana. A e kūʻē i kēia ʻano, ua kū mai ka nīnau: ʻAʻole anei e loiloi hou ʻia kēia inā ʻo nā hale pili i ke aniau ka pahuhopu? ʻAʻole anei he mea nui e noʻonoʻo hou i ka hana e kūʻē i ke kua: He aha ka hana maoli no ke kaiāulu?

Martin Auer: ʻO ka nui o nā pono a mākou e kūʻai ai i mea e māʻona ai hiki ke hoʻokō ʻia ma nā ʻano ʻē aʻe. Hiki iaʻu ke kūʻai aku i kēlā ʻano lomilomi home a i ʻole hiki iaʻu ke hele i kahi kauka lomilomi. ʻO ka mea hoʻonani maoli ka masseur. A ma o ka manaʻo hoʻolako, hiki i kekahi ke hoʻokele i ka ʻoihana ma ke ala e hoʻololi ai mākou i nā pono liʻiliʻi me nā waiwai waiwai a ʻoi aku me nā lawelawe pilikino.

Margaret Haderer: ʻAe, pololei. A i ʻole hiki iā mākou ke nānā i nā loko ʻauʻau. I nā makahiki i hala iho nei, aia ka manaʻo, ʻoi aku ma ka ʻāina, no kēlā me kēia kanaka i kāna ʻauʻau ponoʻī ma ke kua. Inā makemake ʻoe e hana i nā hale pili i ke aniau, pono ʻoe i ke kaona, ke kūlanakauhale a i ʻole ka mokuʻāina e hoʻōki iā ia no ka mea e huki ana i ka wai o lalo a hāʻawi i kahi wai ʻauʻau lehulehu.

Martin Auer: No laila he hui kaiaulu.

Margaret Haderer: Ke ʻōlelo nei kekahi i ka ʻoluʻolu kaiāulu ma ke ʻano he ʻokoʻa i ka waiwai pilikino.

Martin Auer: Manaʻo mau ʻia ʻo ka neʻe ʻana o ka hoʻoponopono ʻāina i ka asceticism. Manaʻo wau pono mākou e hoʻokūpaʻa e makemake mākou i ka nani, akā he ʻano ʻokoʻa. No laila, he huaʻōlelo maikaʻi loa ka ʻoluʻolu kaiāulu.

Margaret Haderer: Ma Vienna, nui nā mea i hoʻolaha ʻia i ka lehulehu, nā kindergartens, nā loko ʻauʻau, nā hale haʻuki, ka neʻe ʻana o ka lehulehu. Mahalo nui ʻia ʻo Vienna mai waho.

Martin Auer: ʻAe, ua hoʻohālike ʻia ʻo Vienna i ka wā interwar, a ua hoʻolālā ʻia i ka politika ma ia ala. Me nā hale kaiāulu, nā paka, nā loko wai waho manuahi no nā keiki, a aia kekahi kulekele noʻonoʻo ma hope o ia.

Margaret Haderer: A ua lanakila loa. Ke loaʻa mau nei ʻo Vienna i nā makana ma ke ʻano he kūlanakauhale me ke kūlana kiʻekiʻe o ke ola, a ʻaʻole loaʻa kēia mau makana no ka mea ua hāʻawi pilikino ʻia nā mea a pau. He hopena koʻikoʻi ka hoʻolako aupuni i ke kūlana kiʻekiʻe o ke ola ma kēia kūlanakauhale. A ʻoi aku ka maʻalahi, nānā ʻia i kahi manawa lōʻihi, ma mua o ka waiho ʻana i nā mea āpau i ka mākeke a laila pono ʻoe e ʻohi i nā ʻāpana, no laila e ʻōlelo. ʻO ka hiʻohiʻona maʻamau: he ʻōnaehana mālama ola pilikino ko USA, ʻaʻohe ʻāina ʻē aʻe o ka honua e hoʻolilo nui i ke olakino e like me ka USA. He kiʻekiʻe ko lākou hoʻolimalima lehulehu ʻoiai ke aupuni o nā mea pāʻani pilikino. ʻAʻole ia he hoʻolilo nui loa.

Martin Auer: No laila, ʻo ka manaʻo hoʻolako e hoʻonui hou ʻia nā wahi me ka lako lehulehu. A laila, loaʻa i ka mokuʻāina a i ʻole ke kaona ka mana i ke ʻano o ka hoʻolālā ʻana. Hoʻokahi pilikia, ʻo ka hoʻolaha ʻia ʻana o nā alanui, akā ʻaʻole mākou e hoʻoholo i kahi e kūkulu ʻia ai nā alanui. E ʻike i ka tunnel Lobau no ka laʻana.

Margaret Haderer: ʻAe, akā inā ʻoe e koho balota ma ka tunnel Lobau, makemake paha ka hapa nui i ke kūkulu ʻana i ka tunnel Lobau.

Martin Auer: Hiki nō, nui nā mea hoihoi. Eia naʻe, ke manaʻoʻiʻo nei au e hiki i nā kānaka ke hoʻokō i nā hopena kūpono i nā kaʻina democratic inā ʻaʻole i hoʻopili ʻia nā kaʻina hana e nā makemake, no ka laʻana, hoʻopukapuka kālā nui i nā hoʻolaha hoʻolaha.

Margaret Haderer: ʻAʻole au e ʻae. ʻAʻole hana mau ka Demokalaka, inā he ʻelele a i ʻole ke komo ʻana, i ka makemake i nā hale pili i ke aniau. A pono paha ʻoe e hoʻoholo i kēlā. ʻAʻole ʻo ka Demokalaka ka mea e hōʻoiaʻiʻo ai no nā hale e pili ana i ke aniau. Inā ʻoe e koho balota i kēia manawa ma ka ʻenekini hoʻoheheʻe kūloko - aia kahi noiʻi ma Kelemānia - 76 pākēneka i manaʻo ʻia e kūʻē i ka pāpā. Hiki i ka Demokala ke hoʻoulu i nā hale pili i ke aniau, akā hiki iā lākou ke hoʻohaʻahaʻa iā lākou. Hiki i ka moku'āina, ka ʻāpana aupuni, ke hoʻoikaika i nā hale pili i ke aniau, akā hiki i ka ʻoihana aupuni ke hoʻoikaika a hoʻopaʻa i nā hale pili ʻole i ke aniau. ʻO ka mōʻaukala o ka mokuʻāina ka mea i hoʻolaha mau i nā wahie fossil i nā kenekulia i hala. No laila ʻo ke aupuni demokala a me ka mokuʻāina ma ke ʻano he ʻoihana hiki ke lilo i lever a me kahi pahu. He mea nui nō hoʻi mai ka manaʻo o ka hoʻolako e kūʻē ʻoe i ka manaʻoʻiʻo i kēlā me kēia manawa e pili ana ka mokuʻāina, maikaʻi ia mai ka hiʻohiʻona ʻano. ʻO ka mōʻaukala, ʻaʻole like ia, a ʻo ia ke kumu i ʻike koke ai kekahi poʻe he pono mākou i ke aupuni demokala pololei, akā ʻaʻole ia he mea maʻalahi ke alakaʻi i nā hale pili i ke aniau.

Martin Auer: ʻAʻole ʻakomi kēia. Manaʻo wau e hilinaʻi nui ia i kāu ʻike. He mea kupanaha ka loaʻa ʻana o kekahi mau kaiāulu ma Austria i ʻoi aku ka maikaʻi o ke aniau ma mua o ka mokuʻāina holoʻokoʻa. ʻOi aku ka nui o kou hele ʻana i lalo, ʻoi aku ka nui o ka ʻike i loaʻa i ka poʻe, no laila hiki iā lākou ke loiloi maikaʻi i nā hopena o kekahi a i ʻole kekahi hoʻoholo. A i ʻole ʻoi aku ka maikaʻi o Kaleponi ma mua o ka US holoʻokoʻa.

Margaret Haderer: He ʻoiaʻiʻo no ka USA ʻo nā kūlanakauhale a me nā mokuʻāina hoʻi e like me Kaleponi e pāʻani pinepine i kahi hana paionia. Akā inā ʻoe e nānā i ke kulekele kaiapuni ma ʻEulopa, ʻo ka mokuʻāina supranational, ʻo ia hoʻi ka EU, ʻo ia ka hui i hoʻonohonoho i nā kūlana kiʻekiʻe loa.

Martin Auer: Akā inā e nānā au i ka Citizens' Climate Council, no ka laʻana, ua loaʻa mai nā hopena maikaʻi loa a hāʻawi i nā manaʻo maikaʻi loa. He kaʻina hana ia ʻaʻole wale ʻoe i koho balota, akā kahi āu i hoʻoholo ai me nā ʻōlelo aʻoaʻo ʻepekema.

Margaret Haderer: ʻAʻole wau makemake e hoʻopaʻapaʻa kūʻē i nā kaʻina hana komo, akā pono e hoʻoholo ʻia. I ka hihia o ka ʻenekini puhi ahi, ua maikaʻi inā ua hoʻoholo ʻia ma ka pae EU a laila pono e hoʻokō. Manaʻo wau he mea ʻelua-a. Pono nā hoʻoholo kālaiʻāina, e like me ke kānāwai pale ʻana i ke aniau, a laila hoʻoholo ʻia, a ʻoiaʻiʻo hoʻi pono ke komo ʻana.

ʻO ke kuanaʻike kaiaulu

Martin Auer: Lawe kēia iā mākou i ka hiʻohiʻona pilikanaka a kūlohelohe.

Margaret Haderer: ʻAe, ʻo ia kaʻu kuleana nui, a e pili ana i ka nānā ʻana i ka hohonu. Pehea i lilo ai kēia mau hale, nā wahi kaiapuni a mākou e neʻe ai, i ke ʻano o lākou, pehea mākou i komo ai i loko o ka pilikia aniau? No laila ʻoi aku ka hohonu o kēia ma mua o "ka nui o nā kinoea hoʻomehana honua i ka lewa". Nīnau nō hoʻi ke kuanaʻike kaiaulu i ka mōʻaukala pehea mākou i hiki ai i laila. Eia mākou i waenakonu o ka mōʻaukala o ka wā hou, ʻo ia ka Europa-centric, ka mōʻaukala o ka ʻenehana, kapitalisme a pēlā aku. Lawe kēia iā mākou i ka hoʻopaʻapaʻa "Anthropocene". He moʻolelo lōʻihi ka pilikia o ke aniau, akā ua nui ka wikiwiki ma hope o ke Kaua Honua II me ka hoʻomaʻamaʻa ʻana o nā wahie fossil, automobility, urban sprawl, etc. He moʻolelo pōkole maoli kēlā. Ua puka mai nā ʻano hale i hoʻonui nui ʻia, ʻoi aku ka waiwai a me ka pono ʻole o ka nohona, ʻo ia hoʻi ma nā ʻōlelo honua. He mea nui ia i ka hana hou ʻana ma hope o ke Kaua Honua ʻElua, me Fordism1, ka hoʻokumu ʻana i nā hui kūʻai, i alakaʻi ʻia e ka ikehu fossil. Ua hele pū kēia hoʻomohala ʻana me ka colonization a me ka unuhi ʻana2 ma nā wahi ʻē aʻe. No laila ʻaʻole i puunaue like ʻia. ʻO ka mea i hana ʻia ma ʻaneʻi ma ke ʻano he kūlana ola maikaʻi ʻaʻole hiki ke hoʻohālikelike ʻia ma ke ʻano o nā kumu waiwai. maikaʻi, a he kuanaʻike kāne pū kekahi. ʻAʻole he kanaka ka "Anthropocene". Noho ʻo "Human" [ke kuleana no ka Anthropocene] i ka Global North a he kāne ka nui. Hoʻokumu ʻia ka Anthropocene i ka like ʻole o ke kāne a me ka like ʻole o ka honua. ʻAʻole like ka māhele ʻana o nā hopena o ka pōʻino o ke aniau, akā pēlā ke kumu o ka pōʻino. ʻAʻole ʻo "kanaka e like me ia" i komo. Pono ʻoe e nānā pono i nā hale i kuleana no mākou e noho ai. ʻAʻole pili i ka moralizing. Eia nō naʻe, ʻike kekahi i ka hoʻoholo mau ʻana o nā pilikia o ka hoʻoponopono no ka lanakila ʻana i ka pilikia aniau. ʻO ka pono ma waena o nā hanauna, ka hoʻopono ma waena o nā kāne a me nā wahine a me ka hoʻoponopono honua.

Martin Auer: Loaʻa iā mākou nā mea like ʻole i loko o ka Global South a i loko o ka Global North. Aia kekahi poʻe no lākou ka pilikia o ka huliau no ka mea hiki iā lākou ke pale maikaʻi iā lākou iho.

Margaret Haderer: No ka laʻana me ka ea ea. ʻAʻole hiki i nā kānaka a pau ke loaʻa iā lākou, a hoʻonui lākou i ka pilikia o ke aniau. Hiki iaʻu ke hoʻomaʻamaʻa, akā hoʻohana hou au i ka ikehu a ʻo kekahi e lawe i nā koina.

Martin Auer: A e hoʻomehana koke au i ke kūlanakauhale. A i ʻole hiki iaʻu ke holo i ke kuahiwi ke wela loa a lele paha i kahi ʻē aʻe.

Margaret Haderer: ʻO ka hale ʻelua a me nā mea, ʻae.

Martin Auer: Hiki i kekahi ke ʻōlelo maoli he kuleana ko nā kiʻi like ʻole o ke kanaka i kēia mau hiʻohiʻona like ʻole?

Margaret Haderer: E kamaʻilio wau i nā manaʻo like ʻole e pili ana i ke kaiāulu a me ka loli kaiapili.

Martin Auer: No laila, aia ke kiʻi o ka "Homo oeconomicus".

Margaret Haderer: ʻAe, ua kūkākūkā pū mākou i kēlā. No laila ʻo "homo oeconomicus" ka mea maʻamau no ka ʻike mākeke. ʻO ke kanaka i pili i ka pilikanaka a hilinaʻi i ke kaiāulu, i nā hana a nā poʻe ʻē aʻe, ʻo ia ke kiʻi o ka manaʻo hoʻolako. Mai ka hiʻohiʻona o ke kaiāulu, nui nā kiʻi o ka poʻe, a ma laila e lilo ai i mea paʻakikī. Hiki ke ʻōlelo ʻia ʻo "Homo socialis" no ka hiʻohiʻona pilikanaka a me ka manaʻo hoʻolako.

Martin Auer: ʻO ka nīnau e pili ana i nā "pono ​​maoli" o ke kanaka i hāpai ʻia ma nā ʻano like ʻole? He aha ka mea e pono ai na kanaka? ʻAʻole pono wau i ka mea hoʻomehana kinoea, pono wau e mahana, pono wau i ka mahana. Pono wau i ka meaʻai, akā hiki iaʻu ke ʻai i ka ʻiʻo a i ʻole hiki iaʻu ke ʻai i nā mea kanu. Ma kahi o ke olakino, ʻokoʻa ka ʻepekema meaʻai e pili ana i ka mea e pono ai ka poʻe, akā aia nō kēia nīnau ma kahi ʻano ākea?

Margaret Haderer: Hōʻike kēlā me kēia manaʻo i nā pane i kēia nīnau. Manaʻo ka manaʻo o ka mākeke e hana mākou i nā hoʻoholo kūpono, e wehewehe ʻia kā mākou pono e ka mea a mākou e kūʻai ai. Ma ka manaʻo hoʻolako a me ke kaiāulu, ua manaʻo ʻia ʻo ka mea a mākou e manaʻo ai he pono e kūkulu mau ʻia i ka nohona. Hoʻokumu pū ʻia nā pono, ma o ka hoʻolaha a pēlā aku. Akā inā ʻo nā hale pili i ke aniau ka pahuhopu, a laila aia hoʻokahi a ʻelua paha mau pono i hiki ʻole iā mākou ke loaʻa hou. Ma ka ʻōlelo Pelekania aia kahi ʻokoʻa maikaʻi ma waena o nā "makemake" a me "makemake" - ʻo ia hoʻi nā pono a me nā makemake. No ka laʻana, aia kahi noiʻi ʻo ka awelika ka nui o ka hale no ka ʻohana hoʻokahi ma hope koke o ke Kaua Honua ʻElua, kahi i manaʻo ʻia he nani i kēlā manawa, he nui ia e hiki ke hoʻonui maikaʻi ʻia. Akā ʻo ka mea i hana ʻia ma ka ʻāpana hale ʻohana hoʻokahi mai ka makahiki 1990 - ua ulu a nui nā hale - ʻaʻole hiki ke hoʻopili ʻia kekahi mea like.

Martin Auer: Manaʻo wau ʻo ke ao holoʻokoʻa ka ʻōlelo kūpono. Pono ke ola maikaʻi no kēlā me kēia kanaka, a ʻo ka mea mua e hoʻokō ʻia nā pono kumu.

Margaret Haderer: ʻAe, aia nā haʻawina e pili ana i kēia, akā aia kekahi hoʻopaʻapaʻa koʻikoʻi no ka hiki ke hoʻoholo maoli ʻia ma kēia ʻano. Aia nā haʻawina sociological a me psychological e pili ana i kēia, akā paʻakikī ke komo ʻana i ka politika, no ka mea ma ka liʻiliʻi loa mai ka mākeke kuanaʻike he mea e komo ai i ke kūʻokoʻa o kēlā me kēia kanaka. Akā ʻaʻole hiki i nā mea a pau ke kūʻai aku i kā lākou wai ponoʻī.

Martin Auer: Ke manaʻoʻiʻo nei au he ʻokoʻa loa ka nānā ʻana o ka ulu ʻana mai kēlā me kēia hiʻohiʻona. Mai ka mākeke kuanaʻike mea he axiom e ulu ka hoʻokele waiwai, ma kekahi ʻaoʻao aia ka lawa a me ka degrowth kuanaʻike e ʻōlelo ʻia e hiki nō hoʻi ke ʻōlelo i kekahi manawa: ʻAe, i kēia manawa ua lawa mākou, ua lawa. ʻaʻole pono e ʻoi aku.

Margaret Haderer: Ua kākau ʻia ka accumulation imperative a me ka ulu ʻana i ka manaʻo o ka mākeke. Akā ʻoiai ma ke ʻano o ka hana hou a me ka hoʻolako ʻana, ʻaʻole manaʻo kekahi e pau ka ulu ʻana. ʻO ka manaʻo ma ʻaneʻi: Ma hea mākou e ulu ai a ma hea mākou e ulu ʻole ai a i ʻole e emi a "exnovate", ʻo ia hoʻi, hoʻohuli i nā mea hou. Mai ka hiʻohiʻona kaiaulu, hiki iā ʻoe ke ʻike ma ka ʻaoʻao hoʻokahi e pili ana ko mākou kūlana o ke ola ma luna o ka ulu ʻana, akā i ka manawa like hoʻi he mea luku loa ia, ma ka mōʻaukala. ʻO ka moku'āina maikaʻi, e like me ka mea i kūkulu ʻia, e pili ana i ka ulu ʻana, no ka laʻana nā ʻōnaehana palekana penikala. E pōmaikaʻi ana ka lehulehu ākea mai ka ulu ʻana, a he mea paʻakikī loa ka hana ʻana i nā hale pili i ke aniau. Makaʻu ka poʻe i ka lohe ʻana e pili ana i ka ulu ʻana. Pono nā hāʻawi ʻokoʻa.

Martin Auer: Mahalo nui iā ʻoe, e Margret, no kēia nīnauele.

ʻO kēia nīnauele ka hapa 2 o kā mākou He moʻolelo ma ka APCC Special Report "Nā hoʻonohonoho no ka nohona pili i ke ea".
Hiki ke lohe ʻia ka nīnauele ma kā mākou podcast ALPINE GLOW.
E paʻi ʻia ka hōʻike ma ke ʻano he puke wehe e Springer Spectrum. A hiki i kēlā manawa, aia nā mokuna paʻa i ka ʻaoʻao home CCCA loaʻa

Nā kiʻi:
Kiʻi uhi: Urban Gardening on the Danube Canal (wien.info)
ʻO nā kumukūʻai ma kahi pahu hau ma Czech Republic (mea kākau: ʻike ʻole ʻia)
monorail. LM07 ma o ka pixabay
ʻO ka loko wai waho o nā keiki Margaretengurtel, Vienna, ma hope o 1926. Friz Sauer
Miners ma Nigeria.  Kaiapuni Lunakanawai Atlas,  CC BY 2.0

1 ʻO Fordism, ka mea i hoʻomohala ma hope o ke Kaua Honua Mua, ua hoʻokumu ʻia ma luna o ka hana nui ʻana no ka hoʻohana nui ʻana, ka hana laina hui me nā ʻanuʻu hana i māhele ʻia i nā ʻāpana liʻiliʻi loa, ka hoʻopaʻi hana koʻikoʻi a me kahi hui kaiaulu i makemake ʻia ma waena o nā limahana a me nā ʻoihana.

2 ka hoohana ana i na mea maka